obama administration gives away internet

[Tolken]

Nebula - And you are blaming average American citizens for this?

 

I don’t believe that is what I wrote, but what I am saying is that the “vitriol spewed in politics” has translated into civil conversation.  The rush limbaughs, rachel maddows, sean hannitys, ed shultz, etc. simply inflame the fracture and very often with outright lies on issues. Yet, now that you mention it, yes the American people simply blindly follow whatever bias they embrace.

 

It is quite clear how one-sided you are are; so please quit acting as if you are not.

 

Am I to assume you are not one-sided? For me absolutely, I am one sided in defending the Obama bashing right, and did the same to the left when Bush was President.  No, I am not completely blaming the tea party but such narrow minded inertia leads nowhere in the political sphere. If the situation was reversed, Republican president and democratic house, the right would be screaming their heads off at the obstructionism....wouldn’t they?  I have my own disconnect with Obama and I actually write to my senator and congress man on issues important to me...and receive responses.

 

The vitriol and hate spewed by many “Christians” I find appalling, rational criticism is not an issue. I personally take Romans 13 with some seriousness which doesn’t negate disagreement but certainly places limits on unchecked hateful rhetoric.

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Part 2:

 

And unlike Obama, nothing Bush did got americans killed.

 

I would suggest that 4,486 deaths of American soldiers is significant...especially when the “war” was a fabrication.  It matters little to America but estimates put the civilian deaths over 100,000.

 

Look at fast and furious

 

“Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies. Fortune reviewed more than 2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents and interviewed 39 people, including seven law-enforcement agents with direct knowledge of the case. Several, including Voth, are speaking out for the first time.”

 

So how easy is it to get guns?

 

Just 200 miles from Mexico, which prohibits gun sales, the Phoenix area is home to 853 federally licensed firearms dealers. Billboards advertise volume discounts for multiple purchases.

Customers can legally buy as many weapons as they want in Arizona as long as they're 18 or older and pass a criminal background check. There are no waiting periods and no need for permits, and buyers are allowed to resell the guns. "In Arizona," says Voth, "someone buying three guns is like someone buying a sandwich."

By 2009 the Sinaloa drug cartel had made Phoenix its gun supermarket and recruited young Americans as its designated shoppers or straw purchasers. Voth and his agents began investigating a group of buyers, some not even old enough to buy beer, whose members were plunking down as much as $20,000 in cash to purchase up to 20 semiautomatics at a time, and then delivering the weapons to others."

whats happened in the past doesn't matter-we can't change that, its whats happening now, that we can.

Nonsense, those who forget the past are destined to repeat it. All that I am suggesting is that we should address history.  Obviously the actions of Reagan, Bush, etc. can be swept under the carpet...no big deal it was in the past. I am simply suggesting that by evidence and fact the “traitorous” allegations you’ve made are without foundation and simply motivated by right wing bias. The simple question was should Reagan have been "jailed" for his "traitorous" acts?  Should Bush have been "jailed" for his "traitorous" acts?

How can you stand behind a president who is wrecking our economy and leaving americans out to die, and then covering it up? how can you?

Because you are wrong....simple as that. If anyone is wrecking the economy it is the republicans with their norquistian tax mandates, and their unalterable defense of corporatism and plutocracy. You do realize I trust what the responsibilities of the house of reps comprises and they have simply thwarted any attempt to move this country forward. If you want I will spend some time looking up quotes from any number of republicans supporting stimulus packages under Bush and yet rejecting the same scenarios under Obama.

So put blame where blame is due. You want to walk away? agree to disagree? then do so. 

“I will just add, few recall that a professor from the University of Chicago predicted the financial collapse of 2008, though totally dismissed by the large majority of economists, his prediction was  based on several factors one of which was income inequality. An interesting read is Hendrick Smith, or Hacker and Pierson's "Winner-Take-All Politics", and also Wendell Potter”  

I guess I didn’t realize this was anything but a suggestion of some informative reading material. It was not written as an argument, I’m afraid I don’t see an argument in there.. 

As for Bengazi I can address that later after I get a few priorities accomplished. 

[nebula]

Nebula - And you are blaming average American citizens for this?

 

I don’t believe that is what I wrote, but what I am saying is that the “vitriol spewed in politics” has translated into civil conversation.  The rush limbaughs, rachel maddows, sean hannitys, ed shultz, etc. simply inflame the fracture and very often with outright lies on issues. Yet, now that you mention it, yes the American people simply blindly follow whatever bias they embrace.

But why are you ignoring the hate and spite filled comment spewing out of the MSNBC, John Stewart, Whoopie Goldburg, Bill Maher, Michael Moore, etc.?

And have you noticed how many jabs Hollywood takes at Republicans and Conservative values in their TV and movies? These things are scattered all over the media.

 

It is quite clear how one-sided you are are; so please quit acting as if you are not.

 

Am I to assume you are not one-sided?

No, but I have no problem admitting it. I don't act centrist while speaking leftist or rightist.

 

For me absolutely, I am one sided in defending the Obama bashing right, and did the same to the left when Bush was President.  No, I am not completely blaming the tea party but such narrow minded inertia leads nowhere in the political sphere. If the situation was reversed, Republican president and democratic house, the right would be screaming their heads off at the obstructionism....wouldn’t they?  I have my own disconnect with Obama and I actually write to my senator and congress man on issues important to me...and receive responses.

 

The vitriol and hate spewed by many “Christians” I find appalling, rational criticism is not an issue. I personally take Romans 13 with some seriousness which doesn’t negate disagreement but certainly places limits on unchecked hateful rhetoric.

If you can offer examples of how to hate the policies and actions without hating the man, please display this.

[Tolken]

Nebula - But why are you ignoring the hate and spite filled comment spewing out of the MSNBC, John Stewart, Whoopie Goldburg, Bill Maher, Michael Moore, etc.?

 

I don't believe I did...aren't Rachel Maddow and Ed Shultz liberals?  I didn't attempt to list everyone as there are far too many on both sides.  My only point is that one will gravitate to whatever their bias and simply parrot what they hear from whomever they happen to listen/watch.  More often than not there is quite a bit left out, and truth is most Americans simply want to hear what they want to hear - left or right.

 

No, but I have no problem admitting it. I don't act centrist while speaking leftist or rightist.

 

I simply believe in equal opportunity criticism. If one actually takes a historical perspective they will certainly see that whether government is dominated by Repubs or Dems the very same issues never seem to be resolved in any positive way. Oh, and I am a centrist politically because I am a realist in that compromise is the only way forward. At the moment we stand at zero because one side wants 50 and the other 100, when they should agree on somewhere in between.

 

If you can offer examples of how to hate the policies and actions without hating the man, please display this.

 

No, it is one of the reasons that I left the boards 7 years ago.  I can't recall which "Christian" site I was on then, and I don't feel like taking the time to track down those posts, even if I could. I do recall a posting where a "Christian" maintained that President Obama was the Anti-Christ...so I took a minute to look up that, and low and behold:

 

*A Texas megachurch pastor recently claimed that President Barack Obama's re-election victory would lead to the rise of the Antichrist. (In the Christian Post)

 

*A sign at Spirit One Christian Center in Wichita, Kansas, claims Barack Obama is a Muslim and describes his election as "a sin against the Lord."

 

 

 

 

 

*As Steven Anderson told his congregation on August 16, 2009, "you have probably never heard a sermon like this before. Actually, you probably have if you have been coming to church here for a while. But you know what? Here is my sermon, why I hate Barack Obama. That's my sermon tonight, because Barack Obama is coming to town tomorrow morning."

Pastor Anderson has gained national and international media attention for that sermon, in which he declared he is praying "imprecatory prayer" for Obama's death.
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/9/2/12392/06622

 

*Pastor Hagee Warns Christians That `Obama Will Bring Absolute Socialism to America'

 

I'm sure there are myriad more examples...I will state this, I would never attend a church where the Pastor expressed by sermon his political views. 

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Nebula - why is this thread is so far down? I have to go to the second page to find it...and the main post doesn't show it being updated?  Thought maybe you would know as you are much more experienced here...

[nebula]

Nebula - But why are you ignoring the hate and spite filled comment spewing out of the MSNBC, John Stewart, Whoopie Goldburg, Bill Maher, Michael Moore, etc.?

I don't believe I did...aren't Rachel Maddow and Ed Shultz liberals?  I didn't attempt to list everyone as there are far too many on both sides.  My only point is that one will gravitate to whatever their bias and simply parrot what they hear from whomever they happen to listen/watch.  More often than not there is quite a bit left out, and truth is most Americans simply want to hear what they want to hear - left or right.

Sorry, I must have missed your comments about Maddow and Shulz.

Sure, we all gravitate to our own sides, including you. It's human nature. Some people are better though, at listening to points of view that make their blood boil than others.

I personally cannot stand listening to Obama being placed on the "Messiah" platform given him starting when he was still a Senator. I can't speak for everyone, but I know my feelings of disdain are magnified because of this "Obama worship" from the left.

 

No, but I have no problem admitting it. I don't act centrist while speaking leftist or rightist.

 

I simply believe in equal opportunity criticism. If one actually takes a historical perspective they will certainly see that whether government is dominated by Repubs or Dems the very same issues never seem to be resolved in any positive way. Oh, and I am a centrist politically because I am a realist in that compromise is the only way forward. At the moment we stand at zero because one side wants 50 and the other 100, when they should agree on somewhere in between.

Which side wants 50? Certainly not the Dems.!

 

If you can offer examples of how to hate the policies and actions without hating the man, please display this.

No, it is one of the reasons that I left the boards 7 years ago.

Well, I hope you realize, Tolken, that complaining about complaining is not going to challenge anyone to quit complaining.

 

I can't recall which "Christian" site I was on then, and I don't feel like taking the time to track down those posts, even if I could. I do recall a posting where a "Christian" maintained that President Obama was the Anti-Christ...so I took a minute to look up that, and low and behold:

 

*A Texas megachurch pastor recently claimed that President Barack Obama's re-election victory would lead to the rise of the Antichrist. (In the Christian Post)

I recall hearing the same said about Pres. Bush.

For that matter, all my life I've heard Christians, pastors or not, point to this and that political figure and this or that political event as either the anti-Christ, or leading to the anti-Christ.

So what?

Pray for them!

 

*A sign at Spirit One Christian Center in Wichita, Kansas, claims Barack Obama is a Muslim and describes his election as "a sin against the Lord."

I agree that's not a good thing to be proclaiming on a church sign.

Pray for them.

 

 

*As Steven Anderson told his congregation on August 16, 2009, "you have probably never heard a sermon like this before. Actually, you probably have if you have been coming to church here for a while. But you know what? Here is my sermon, why I hate Barack Obama. That's my sermon tonight, because Barack Obama is coming to town tomorrow morning."

Pastor Anderson has gained national and international media attention for that sermon, in which he declared he is praying "imprecatory prayer" for Obama's death.

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/9/2/12392/06622

Pray for them.

 

*Pastor Hagee Warns Christians That `Obama Will Bring Absolute Socialism to America'

Change that "will" to "is" and I agree. If you don't see the evidence of such, I wonder how you could be seeing things from a neutral perspective?

 

I'm sure there are myriad more examples...I will state this, I would never attend a church where the Pastor expressed by sermon his political views. 

That's fine.

But do you have an objection to politics being expressed on a Christian message board in a section reserved for such?

[nebula]

Nebula - why is this thread is so far down? I have to go to the second page to find it...and the main post doesn't show it being updated?  Thought maybe you would know as you are much more experienced here...

 

How far up or down the thread is depends on when the last post in the thread was given compared to when other threads were posted or responded to. If the last time this thread was posted on came in before the worthy News Bot posted a bunch of other headlines, then this thread would be below them.

 

I know of no other reason for the thread to be further down.

 

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by about the main post being updated? Was the original post edited? Or are you referring the latest responses given?

[Tolken]

Nebula - I can't speak for everyone, but I know my feelings of disdain are magnified because of this "Obama worship" from the left.

 

I don’t see where President Obama has made such effort or endorsed this worship?  We, I will include myself, often place people we greatly admire on a pedestal, ignoring the shortcomings and focusing only on the positives, I think it is a quite “human” trait.

 

But do you have an objection to politics being expressed on a Christian message board in a section reserved for such?

 

No, not at all, however, I do think President Obama is unfairly demonized. I truly believe that much of the “scandals”, calls for impeachment, and termed as traitor are simply biased hate, and upon closer inspection amount to pure partisanship.  I also think that the republican house is equally responsible for the current malaise.  If one chooses to criticize President Obama then they should do so in a manner not antithetical to Christian behavior and speech. I haven’t witnessed such behavior on Worthy.

 

Change that "will" to "is" and I agree. If you don't see the evidence of such, I wonder how you could be seeing things from a neutral perspective?

 

If one is going to accuse President Obama of socialism than by the same rational they should also place former President Reagan under the same umbrella. Reagan raised taxes, drove up the deficit, and pushed for increased taxes on the wealthy. As a matter of fact at the time the tax rate was considerably higher...tax rates are presently lower. One also can’t deny that Reagan has been virtually a “god” to many republicans, so to an extent there is worship involved.

 

As I believe I noted in a previous post I have a number of issues with President Obama that I have clearly expressed through my reps and elsewhere. Though I would suggest that is quite common...”can’t please all the people all the time”... but I do express my opinions to the “powers that be”.

 

*For whatever reason this thread is on the second page, and the last noted post is March 18 by Other One?  Probably why I was late with this..............  Blessings

Edited March 21, 2014 by Tolken

[nebula]

Nebula - I can't speak for everyone, but I know my feelings of disdain are magnified because of this "Obama worship" from the left.

 

I don’t see where President Obama has made such effort or endorsed this worship?  We, I will include myself, often place people we greatly admire on a pedestal, ignoring the shortcomings and focusing only on the positives, I think it is a quite “human” trait.

During his first presidential campaign, all pictures of him - and I'm not exaggerating, showed either sunbeams radiating from his face, a rainbow around him, or a halo around his head.

Ever see that with any other political persona? Maybe the leader of North Korea!

I know about the pedestal effect, but the glorification of Obama has gone above and beyond the norm. He truly has been lifted up as "the Messiah" - I mean, who receives a Noble Peace Prize without having actually accomplished anything towards peace?

Have you noticed how the news media fawns over him?

It is unreal.

 

But do you have an objection to politics being expressed on a Christian message board in a section reserved for such?

 

No, not at all, however, I do think President Obama is unfairly demonized. I truly believe that much of the “scandals”, calls for impeachment, and termed as traitor are simply biased hate, and upon closer inspection amount to pure partisanship.  I also think that the republican house is equally responsible for the current malaise.  If one chooses to criticize President Obama then they should do so in a manner not antithetical to Christian behavior and speech. I haven’t witnessed such behavior on Worthy.

Firstly, do you beleive the claims that Obama has trampled the Constituion to be false?

 

Second, if your desire is to turn their criticism in a way more antithetical to Christian behavior and speach, you need to address this specificaly, presenting examples of how to do so (not saying you have to agree with the statement, just show how it should be done), you might find better success at results.

 

Defending Obama as you have will not accomplish this.

 

Change that "will" to "is" and I agree. If you don't see the evidence of such, I wonder how you could be seeing things from a neutral perspective?

 

If one is going to accuse President Obama of socialism than by the same rational they should also place former President Reagan under the same umbrella. Reagan raised taxes, drove up the deficit, and pushed for increased taxes on the wealthy. As a matter of fact at the time the tax rate was considerably higher...tax rates are presently lower. One also can’t deny that Reagan has been virtually a “god” to many republicans, so to an extent there is worship involved.

 

As I believe I noted in a previous post I have a number of issues with President Obama that I have clearly expressed through my reps and elsewhere. Though I would suggest that is quite common...”can’t please all the people all the time”... but I do express my opinions to the “powers that be”.

 

I am sure the problem goes deeper than just Obama, but he is at the forefront currently. And he's gone further than any other president in this. Taxes aren't the key issue here with socialist policies, though.

 

 

*For whatever reason this thread is on the second page, and the last noted post is March 18 by Other One?  Probably why I was late with this..............  Blessings

 

Sorry, you'll need to message a Servant about this. Maybe they can help you. I do not see this problem on my page.

[Tolken]

Nebula - Firstly, do you beleive the claims that Obama has trampled the Constituion to be false?

 

If you could point to an example perhaps I could respond. Trampled is extreme, he has not “trampled” the constitution any more than past presidents such as Bush and Reagan.  I see much of it as merely right wing posturing. As noted in a previous set of posts the charge of President Obama being a “traitor” appears to me to be baseless and false. 

 

Second, if your desire is to turn their criticism in a way more antithetical to Christian behavior and speach, you need to address this specificaly, presenting examples of how to do so (not saying you have to agree with the statement, just show how it should be done), you might find better success at results. Defending Obama as you have will not accomplish this. 

 

I’m afraid I am not sure what you mean here. My point was that criticism of the President should not be Antithetical to Christian behavior and speech.., I don't see where hate speech is a Christian virtue. (Also, false accusations would come under the same banner) You and I seem to be capable of discussing issues, though we disagree, without resorting to inflammatory jabs and retorts. As in the other posts I can state my thoughts/opinions without resorting to such additions as ...”if you believe that you are either stupid, a liar, or a moron”, or name calling.  I try and offer opinion with support for why I take the position that I do, as I trust others would also.

 

Defending Obama as you have will not accomplish this.

 

Again, I am unsure what you mean. I am not attempting to convince or persuade anyone other than to show that there are two sides to the issue. The facts speak for themselves, I do not pretend to know the heart of anyone. (1 Sam. 16:7)  When Obama is called a socialist I am simply pointing out, by evidence, that then Reagan should have been termed a socialist. That was supported by proof of Reagan's tax raises, push to raise taxes on the wealthy, etc., one can choose to disregard the facts. One may continue to call him a socialist but they do so with no justification that I can see.  The whole issue with Obama being a traitor is pure nonsense and I was more then willing to provide support.  Bias is an extremely strong force in our lives .....

Edited March 21, 2014 by Tolken