Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Hindsfeet

Which Resurrection?

57 posts in this topic

 I am pre-wrath, I have not 'taken sides' and find myself both disappointed and amused at the same time watching the arguments fly about. However, for the following, I would be interested in all povs and interpretations on these verses, respectfully of course, i ask.

 

Dan 12:1-3

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

 

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

 

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever
   

 

When I read this, it does not fall into my understandings of the First Resurrection, nor the Second Resurrection based on Rev 20. Perhaps I am missing a few things.

Is this a whole separate Resurrection?

 

Pre-trib - 'and the dead in Christ shall rise first'  perhaps the 'shame and everlasting contempt' is as the outer heaven and gnashing of teeth because one didnt serve as one should/could have? Also, how could this be a secret rapture if people are shining like the stars and firmament?

 

Post-trib - This reads to me that there is a resurrection of sorts at the beginning of the Great tribulation, prior to the last trumpet judgement, thoughts?

 

I have a million other questions/arguments regarding this verse and both POV's, but lets just stick with this description of a Resurrection.

Just trying to gain knowledge and understanding, not cause division, this is a learning opportunity.

Yanno what, maybe we are just All right!

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How does this point to any specific time?  I don't see it.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was" - Great Tribulation

"and at that time thy people shall be delivered"

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am pre-wrath, I have not 'taken sides' and find myself both disappointed and amused at the same time watching the arguments fly about. However, for the following, I would be interested in all povs and interpretations on these verses, respectfully of course, i ask.

 

Dan 12:1-3

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

 

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

 

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever

   

 

When I read this, it does not fall into my understandings of the First Resurrection, nor the Second Resurrection based on Rev 20. Perhaps I am missing a few things.

Is this a whole separate Resurrection?

 

Pre-trib - 'and the dead in Christ shall rise first'  perhaps the 'shame and everlasting contempt' is as the outer heaven and gnashing of teeth because one didnt serve as one should/could have? Also, how could this be a secret rapture if people are shining like the stars and firmament?

 

Post-trib - This reads to me that there is a resurrection of sorts at the beginning of the Great tribulation, prior to the last trumpet judgement, thoughts?

 

I have a million other questions/arguments regarding this verse and both POV's, but lets just stick with this description of a Resurrection.

Just trying to gain knowledge and understanding, not cause division, this is a learning opportunity.

Yanno what, maybe we are just All right!

Hi Hindsfeet,

Now you're getting into my specialty. :mgcheerful:

This is both the first and second resurrections. However, Daniel did not know several things. He did not know these resurrections would be separated by a thousand years. He knew nothing about the millennial reign of Christ or the Church. He did not know Messiah would die for the sins of the world, etc..... But the Jews did believe in the resurrection and prepared the bodies of the dead for the resurrection.

They had no knowledge of the rapture either, for Christ had not yet come, which is why Daniel was told to shut up the words and seal the book until the time of the end...in the very next verse. The rest of this truth was beyond his comprehension, so the prophecy was stopped there, to be continued later. So knowledge would increase when the New Testament was written.

It was none other than Christ, Himself that continued Daniels prophecy, beginning at (Matt.24:15). This prophecy was not very helpful to Daniel, but it is very helpful for those who will be living at the time of the end. If you'll look back to Daniel 11:36, that is the abomination of desolation. Thus, the time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation in Dan. 12:1, is known today as the great tribulation (Matt. 24:21).

So it was Christ, Himself that continued Daniel's prophecy, but to understand it completely, we must add them together. Daniel mentions the dead and Christ mentions those who are alive at the time of the end. If you add what Daniel said about the dead rising, to what Christ said about gathering His elect, it equals what Paul said in 1 Thes. 4:16-17.

Cheers

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hindsfeet

 

There are only 2 Resurrections.  One is for the Just, Jesus Christ being the first fruit.  The other is for the Unjust, the beast and the false prophet being the first fruits.  Scripture does not say there is only an entry "all inclusive at the same time", "once and for all" entry into either of them.  On the contrary.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just about to say that I am starting to see the logic in a 'secret rapture' - not actually being one of the Resurrections, but now that just went out the window (I've travelled this exact same path before!). Yes, Christ the Firstfruits, and every man in his own order at His coming.

 

I soo want to believe in pre-trib, However, I just cannot justify/gain enough evidence for it scripturally to line up my head knowledge.

 

 

I cannot differentiate the Resurrections and the Comings.

Edited by Hindsfeet
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Resurrection is a destination or home for eternity.  A home for the Just (in Heaven with Jesus), and a home for the Unjust (Lake of Fire).

 

The dead in Christ rise first, then immediately after those alive in Christ meet with them in the air.  Those "in Christ" are those filled with the HS.

 

Now when do we receive our glorified bodies. 1 Thes 4:14 - We believe Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.  Here the bodies of the dead in Christ are joining their own spirits which have been in heaven with Jesus.  The two shall be one Glorified body (body and soul).  Yet we who are still alive in Christ will met them in the air (to receive our own Glorified Body).  This is a segment of the Resurrection for the Just.  The Bride goes first.

 

The only unknown time this can happen is pre-70th week.  We do not know when this time will start, but we do know what follows during the time of the 70th week.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Resurrection is a destination or home for eternity.  A home for the Just (in Heaven with Jesus), and a home for the Unjust (Lake of Fire).

 

The dead in Christ rise first, then immediately after those alive in Christ meet with them in the air.  Those "in Christ" are those filled with the HS.

 

Now when do we receive our glorified bodies. 1 Thes 4:14 - We believe Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.  Here the bodies of the dead in Christ are joining their own spirits which have been in heaven with Jesus.  The two shall be one Glorified body (body and soul).  Yet we who are still alive in Christ will met them in the air (to receive our own Glorified Body).  This is a segment of the Resurrection for the Just.  The Bride goes first.

 

The only unknown time this can happen is pre-70th week.  We do not know when this time will start, but we do know what follows during the time of the 70th week.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

I just love how you fail to quote me or address anything I said in my post. Instead you evade it, while building your own case using assumptions about what you think I believe. Unbelievable! But if my theory is as predictable as you claim, what day do you think I believe the rapture will occur, just out of curiosity?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

A Resurrection is a destination or home for eternity.  A home for the Just (in Heaven with Jesus), and a home for the Unjust (Lake of Fire).

 

The dead in Christ rise first, then immediately after those alive in Christ meet with them in the air.  Those "in Christ" are those filled with the HS.

 

Now when do we receive our glorified bodies. 1 Thes 4:14 - We believe Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.  Here the bodies of the dead in Christ are joining their own spirits which have been in heaven with Jesus.  The two shall be one Glorified body (body and soul).  Yet we who are still alive in Christ will met them in the air (to receive our own Glorified Body).  This is a segment of the Resurrection for the Just.  The Bride goes first.

 

The only unknown time this can happen is pre-70th week.  We do not know when this time will start, but we do know what follows during the time of the 70th week.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

I just love how you fail to quote me or address anything I said in my post. Instead you evade it, while building your own case using assumptions about what you think I believe. Unbelievable! But if my theory is as predictable as you claim, what day do you think I believe the rapture will occur, just out of curiosity?

 

Rolling,

 

Please be nice, I am trying to learn here from both sides of the fence.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, so we would need these glorified bodies in order to return as Christs army, yes <physical and spiritual, correct?> but where/what does this physical/immortal body do until we return? Oh, maybe this is the Wedding and Tabernacles, etc?

 

This cannot be the First resurrection of the just, it Must be something else.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0