Which Resurrection?

[Montana Marv]

A good question is;  When do those who are ruled with a rod of iron during the 1000 years rise, or fall?  When do they receive their immortal bodies?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[rollinTHUNDER]

A good question is;  When do those who are ruled with a rod of iron during the 1000 years rise, or fall?  When do they receive their immortal bodies?

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

We don't know that they will receive immortal bodies. The (sheep) mortals that re-populate the earth won't be saints, and their children won't be living by faith, because God will be living in their sight. Who knows, maybe God will just be restoring creation back to it's original state?

That's a tough question, but I'm sure we'll know more when that time comes.

Cheers

[ENOCH2010]

 

 

I forgot to mention that the Old Testament saints are also in Christ. They were looking forward to the promises, while today, for almost 2000 years we New Testament saints are looking back at the cross, when the promise was fulfilled. For 2000 years the Old Testament saints sacrificed a lamb every year to forgive their sins. The lambs were a symbol for Christ, who died as the Lamb of God, once, for (ALL), including both Old and New Testament saints.

Cheers

Christ led all the old testament saints home at his resurrection.

 

Scripture does not say that. Are you referring to Matt. 27:51-53? I don't see where ALL old testament saints were led home at the resurrection of Christ. What do you mean by home?

Many bodies of the saints were raised after the resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many. I'd be careful not to read too much into that. Are you suggesting that they also ascended to heaven with Jesus as well? Do you think they have already received an eternal glorified body? I don't think so. Scripture really doesn't give us a whole lot to go on, so I wouldn't assume such things. Lazarus was raised to life again as well, and he more than likely died again as well. I have found some scripture that may relate to why some were raised to life again after Christ' resurrection, to obtain a better resurrection.

Hebrews 11:32-40

And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again. Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted,[f] were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

 

 

But again, there is not enough information to draw a solid conclusion.  Who knows, maybe these are the elders that lived before the Mosaic law?  We will never know some things until we get there.

 

The next resurrection will happen at the second coming of Christ (called the first resurrection) then after the 1000 year reign, the second resurrection happens prior to the final judgment. That's what the Bible says, it's simple if people don't try to add a resurrection for the pre-trib rapture.

The next resurrection will happen right before the rapture, not at the physical second coming.  For those who are ready will be attending the wedding supper, so the second coming can not be immediately after the rapture.

 

I believe what some people call the rapture is actually the second coming. I can't find in scripture anywhere of a third coming.

[rollinTHUNDER]

 

 

 

I forgot to mention that the Old Testament saints are also in Christ. They were looking forward to the promises, while today, for almost 2000 years we New Testament saints are looking back at the cross, when the promise was fulfilled. For 2000 years the Old Testament saints sacrificed a lamb every year to forgive their sins. The lambs were a symbol for Christ, who died as the Lamb of God, once, for (ALL), including both Old and New Testament saints.

Cheers

Christ led all the old testament saints home at his resurrection.

 

Scripture does not say that. Are you referring to Matt. 27:51-53? I don't see where ALL old testament saints were led home at the resurrection of Christ. What do you mean by home?

Many bodies of the saints were raised after the resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many. I'd be careful not to read too much into that. Are you suggesting that they also ascended to heaven with Jesus as well? Do you think they have already received an eternal glorified body? I don't think so. Scripture really doesn't give us a whole lot to go on, so I wouldn't assume such things. Lazarus was raised to life again as well, and he more than likely died again as well. I have found some scripture that may relate to why some were raised to life again after Christ' resurrection, to obtain a better resurrection.

Hebrews 11:32-40

And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again. Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted,[f] were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

 

 

But again, there is not enough information to draw a solid conclusion.  Who knows, maybe these are the elders that lived before the Mosaic law?  We will never know some things until we get there.

 

The next resurrection will happen at the second coming of Christ (called the first resurrection) then after the 1000 year reign, the second resurrection happens prior to the final judgment. That's what the Bible says, it's simple if people don't try to add a resurrection for the pre-trib rapture.

The next resurrection will happen right before the rapture, not at the physical second coming.  For those who are ready will be attending the wedding supper, so the second coming can not be immediately after the rapture.

 

I believe what some people call the rapture is actually the second coming. I can't find in scripture anywhere of a third coming.

 

Yes, it looks like you are a classic post-tribber.  So more than likely, you believe the sign of the Son of man appearing and gathering His elect (Matt.24:29-31) is both the rapture and second coming.  Okay, so let me tell you why I don't buy into that theory.  You remember how Jesus was warning His servants to keep watch and be ready.  Now let me show you another parable that shows where those who are ready are going.  It also shows what will happen to His servants that aren't ready as well.

Luke 12:35-48

“Let your waist be girded and your lamps burning; 36 and you yourselves be like men who wait for their master, when he will return from the wedding, that when he comes and knocks they may open to him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them. 38 And if he should come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 40 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”

41 Then Peter said to Him, “Lord, do You speak this parable only to us, or to all people?”

42 And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. 45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.

 

So we see that Christ will serve those who He finds ready at the wedding supper (meat in due season).  These are His faithful servants (disciples).  Not every believer is a disciple, nor will they be rewarded as such.

 

But now look what happens to the servant who is not ready.  These are the wicked or lazy servants.  Verse 46 clearly shows that this servant will be cut off and left with the unbelievers.  In other words, this is the one in the field that was left in (Matt.24:40) and also the woman that was left grinding at the mill (Matt.24:41).

 

So it appears that while the faithful servants are dining at the wedding supper, the lazy servants will be left in the world and I believe these are the saints that will be overcome by the beast (Rev.13:7).  So this is why the second coming will not come immediately after the rapture.  

 

Cheers

 

[Montana Marv]

Thunder

 

IF Matt 24:29,30 is the Rapture and not the Second Coming which you say comes a bit later.  Then we have a big problem.  The Ice Berg.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

Thunder

 

IF Matt 24:29,30 is the Rapture and not the Second Coming which you say comes a bit later.  Then we have a big problem.  The Ice Berg.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Also this is an extension of Rev 1:7 - Look he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him; So shall it be.  All the souls of men, past and present will have a view of the Second Coming; The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords has returned.  Every eye will see Him.  This is the BIG event.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[missmuffet]

 

Thunder

 

IF Matt 24:29,30 is the Rapture and not the Second Coming which you say comes a bit later.  Then we have a big problem.  The Ice Berg.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Also this is an extension of Rev 1:7 - Look he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him; So shall it be.  All the souls of men, past and present will have a view of the Second Coming; The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords has returned.  Every eye will see Him.  This is the BIG event.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Every eye will see him.The second coming.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Thunder

 

IF Matt 24:29,30 is the Rapture and not the Second Coming which you say comes a bit later.  Then we have a big problem.  The Ice Berg.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Problem? Ice berg?  What gives?

[missmuffet]

 

Thunder

 

IF Matt 24:29,30 is the Rapture and not the Second Coming which you say comes a bit later.  Then we have a big problem.  The Ice Berg.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Problem? Ice berg?  What gives?

 

Yea... The Ice Berg 

[rollinTHUNDER]

 

Thunder

 

IF Matt 24:29,30 is the Rapture and not the Second Coming which you say comes a bit later.  Then we have a big problem.  The Ice Berg.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Also this is an extension of Rev 1:7 - Look he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him; So shall it be.  All the souls of men, past and present will have a view of the Second Coming; The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords has returned.  Every eye will see Him.  This is the BIG event.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Actually, you have that backwards.  Rev. 1:7 would be an extension of Matt. 24:30, since Revelation was written last. This changes nothing. It is still referring to the rapture. Many of you pre-trib fans have been taught about a secret rapture, but scripture in no ways supports that assumption either. He will come suddenly and unexpectedly yes, but not secretly.

You said that it was the second coming, but then He starts talking about the rapture after that.  That too, is backwards.  The disciples asked Him when the Temple would be destroyed, and then what will be the (sign) of His coming, and of the end of the age (Matt.24:3).   Then Jesus laid it all out so beautifully and in chronological order beginning at Matt. 24:4 and concluding at Matt. 25:46.   First, the sign of the Son of man would (appear), meaning that it would be visable, like the lightning flashing from east to west.   Do you have scripture stating that a great multitude gathering in the clouds will be a secret, and that no one will know what happened??

Then second, He gave the sign of the end of the age, when He returns in all His glory to judge the nations, separating the sheep from the goats (Matt. 25:31). Your view leaves the rapture out entirely. Why would He fail to tell them about the rapture, when He had already promised them that He was going away to prepare a place for them in His Fathers house and that He would come back for them (John 14:1-3)??   This makes no sense at all.

He will appear first, gather His elect, and the second coming will come when He returns to judge the nations.

2 Timothy 4:1

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his (appearing) and (his kingdom);

 

First His appearing (rapture).  Matt. 24:29-31

Then the end of the age - (second coming) judgment of the nations for the entrance to His millennial kingdom.  Matt. 25:31-46

 

Cheers