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Thunder

 

IF Matt 24:29,30 is the Rapture and not the Second Coming which you say comes a bit later.  Then we have a big problem.  The Ice Berg.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Also this is an extension of Rev 1:7 - Look he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him; So shall it be.  All the souls of men, past and present will have a view of the Second Coming; The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords has returned.  Every eye will see Him.  This is the BIG event.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Actually, you have that backwards.  Rev. 1:7 would be an extension of Matt. 24:30, since Revelation was written last. This changes nothing. It is still referring to the rapture. Many of you pre-trib fans have been taught about a secret rapture, but scripture in no ways supports that assumption either. He will come suddenly and unexpectedly yes, but not secretly.

You said that it was the second coming, but then He starts talking about the rapture after that.  That too, is backwards.  The disciples asked Him when the Temple would be destroyed, and then what will be the (sign) of His coming, and of the end of the age (Matt.24:3).   Then Jesus laid it all out so beautifully and in chronological order beginning at Matt. 24:4 and concluding at Matt. 25:46.   First, the sign of the Son of man would (appear), meaning that it would be visable, like the lightning flashing from east to west.   Do you have scripture stating that a great multitude gathering in the clouds would be a secret??

Then second, He gave the sign of the end of the age, when He returns in all His glory to judge the nations, separating the sheep from the goats (Matt. 25:31). Your view leaves the rapture out entirely. Why would He fail to tell them about the rapture, when He had already promised them that He was going away to prepare a place for them in His Fathers house and that He would come back for them (John 14:1-3)??   This makes no sense at all.

He will appear first, gather His elect, and the second coming will come when He returns to judge the nations.

2 Timothy 4:1

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his (appearing) and (his kingdom);

 

First His appearing (rapture).  Matt. 24:29-31

Then judgment of the nations (second coming) for the entrance to His millennial kingdom.  Matt. 25:31-46

 

Cheers

 

The important differences between the rapture and second coming are as follows:

1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).

4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).

5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

Why is it important to keep the rapture and the second coming distinct?

1) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, believers will have to go through the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

2) If the rapture and the second coming are the same event, the return of Christ is not imminent—there are many things which must occur before He can return (Matthew 24:4-30).

3) In describing the tribulation period, Revelation chapters 6–19 nowhere mentions the church. During the tribulation—also called “the time of trouble for Jacob” (Jeremiah 30:7)—God will again turn His primary attention to Israel (Romans 11:17-31).

The rapture and second coming are similar but separate events. Both involve Jesus returning. Both are end-times events. However, it is crucially important to recognize the differences. In summary, the rapture is the return of Christ in the clouds to remove all believers from the earth before the time of God’s wrath. The second coming is the return of Christ to the earth to bring the tribulation to an end and to defeat the Antichrist and his evil world empire.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/difference-Rapture-Second-Coming.html#ixzz2wqcfEH2Z

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Thunder

 

Once the sun goes dark, does not give off its light and the moon goes dark;  All mankind would die within days from freezing.  Yes an ice berg.  No warming from the sun.  Really simple if one believes Scriptural context.

 

Yet if Matt 24:29,30 is the Second Coming, Then He/Christ is the Light of this world.  Zech 14:6,7 - On that day there be no light, no cold or frost.  It will be a unique day without daytime or nighttime - a day known to the Lord.  When evening comes there will be light.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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Thunder

 

Once the sun goes dark, does not give off its light and the moon goes dark;  All mankind would die within days from freezing.  Yes an ice berg.  No warming from the sun.  Really simple if one believes Scriptural context.

 

Yet if Matt 24:29,30 is the Second Coming, Then He/Christ is the Light of this world.  Zech 14:6,7 - On that day there be no light, no cold or frost.  It will be a unique day without daytime or nighttime - a day known to the Lord.  When evening comes there will be light.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Ok Marv I see what you are saying  :mgcheerful:

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Thunder

 

Once the sun goes dark, does not give off its light and the moon goes dark;  All mankind would die within days from freezing.  Yes an ice berg.  No warming from the sun.  Really simple if one believes Scriptural context.

 

Yet if Matt 24:29,30 is the Second Coming, Then He/Christ is the Light of this world.  Zech 14:6,7 - On that day there be no light, no cold or frost.  It will be a unique day without daytime or nighttime - a day known to the Lord.  When evening comes there will be light.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

That's not a problem at all. The sun will be dark, the moon will not give it's light and the stars will be falling from heaven. The sun being dark could easily be night time. And we know that it probably will be night time in Israel, because the falling stars will be visible. But the moon is what is really telling here. Have you ever studied the phases of the moon? The dark phase, when it is not seen is what's known as a new moon. This happens a little less than every 30 days, so it should not come as such a shock. It marks the first day of each month on the Hebrew calendar.

But here is where it gets really interesting. Not only does the new moon phase begin a new month, but this is also the same phase the moon will be in just before Roshashana (feast of trumpets). When the first sliver of the moon is witnessed, then the feast begins. As you know, the rapture will occur at the last trump. And just as Christ fulfilled all of the spring feasts during His first coming, He will likewise fulfill all of the fall feasts when He returns, beginning with the feast of trumpets, which usually occurs in the month of September, but sometimes at the end of August. The moon is not always seen on the first day after it goes dark. Sometimes it doesn't appear until the second day after, so no man knows the day or the hour. This also favors the rapture, not the second coming.

Cheers

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Thunder

 

Once the sun goes dark, does not give off its light and the moon goes dark;  All mankind would die within days from freezing.  Yes an ice berg.  No warming from the sun.  Really simple if one believes Scriptural context.

 

Yet if Matt 24:29,30 is the Second Coming, Then He/Christ is the Light of this world.  Zech 14:6,7 - On that day there be no light, no cold or frost.  It will be a unique day without daytime or nighttime - a day known to the Lord.  When evening comes there will be light.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

That's not a problem at all. The sun will be dark, the moon will not give it's light and the stars will be falling from heaven. The sun being dark could easily be night time. And we know that it probably will be night time in Israel, because the falling stars will be visible. But the moon is what is really telling here. Have you ever studied the phases of the moon? The dark phase, when it is not seen is what's known as a new moon. This happens a little less than every 30 days, so it should not come as such a shock. It marks the first day of each month on the Hebrew calendar. So this also favors the rapture, not the second coming.

But here is where it gets really interesting. Not only does the new moon phase begin a new month, but this is also the same phase the moon will be in just before Roshashana (feast of trumpets). When the first sliver of the moon is witnessed, then the feast begins. As you know, the rapture will occur at the last trump. And just as Christ fulfilled all of the spring feasts during His first coming, He will likewise fulfill all of the fall feasts as well, beginning with the feast of trumpets, which usually occurs in the month of September, but sometimes at the end of August. The moon is not always seen on the first day after it goes dark. Sometimes it doesn't appear until the second day after, so no man knows the day or the hour.

Cheers

 

What does the fallling of the stars mean ?

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Thunder

 

Once the sun goes dark, does not give off its light and the moon goes dark;  All mankind would die within days from freezing.  Yes an ice berg.  No warming from the sun.  Really simple if one believes Scriptural context.

 

Yet if Matt 24:29,30 is the Second Coming, Then He/Christ is the Light of this world.  Zech 14:6,7 - On that day there be no light, no cold or frost.  It will be a unique day without daytime or nighttime - a day known to the Lord.  When evening comes there will be light.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

That's not a problem at all. The sun will be dark, the moon will not give it's light and the stars will be falling from heaven. The sun being dark could easily be night time. And we know that it probably will be night time in Israel, because the falling stars will be visible. But the moon is what is really telling here. Have you ever studied the phases of the moon? The dark phase, when it is not seen is what's known as a new moon. This happens a little less than every 30 days, so it should not come as such a shock. It marks the first day of each month on the Hebrew calendar.

But here is where it gets really interesting. Not only does the new moon phase begin a new month, but this is also the same phase the moon will be in just before Roshashana (feast of trumpets). When the first sliver of the moon is witnessed, then the feast begins. As you know, the rapture will occur at the last trump. And just as Christ fulfilled all of the spring feasts during His first coming, He will likewise fulfill all of the fall feasts as well, beginning with the feast of trumpets, which usually occurs in the month of September, but sometimes at the end of August. The moon is not always seen on the first day after it goes dark. Sometimes it doesn't appear until the second day after, so no man knows the day or the hour. So this also favors the rapture, not the second coming.

Cheers

 

please  explain what time is this 

 

 

Isaiah 24:19-23

King James Version (KJV)

19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign inmount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

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Thunder

 

The sun will be darkened.  The sun now gives off its light, then it won't.  The moon receives its reflection of light from the sun.  Isa 13:9,10 - See the day of the Lord is coming, a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger to make the land desolate.  The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light.  The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give off its light.  A dark planet is a cold planet.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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Thunder

 

The sun will be darkened.  The sun now gives off its light, then it won't.  The moon receives its reflection of light from the sun.  Isa 13:9,10 - See the day of the Lord is coming, a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger to make the land desolate.  The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light.  The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give off its light.  A dark planet is a cold planet.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Get it right, Marv. His wrath will be the day of the Lord, when He kills the goats that are separated from the sheep and all of the nations that will gather to battle at Armageddon. The gathering of His elect is not wrath. The verse you quoted is a different time, because the stars and constellations are not shining then, but the stars are clearly visible in Matt. 24:29.

Cheers

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Thunder

 

Once the sun goes dark, does not give off its light and the moon goes dark;  All mankind would die within days from freezing.  Yes an ice berg.  No warming from the sun.  Really simple if one believes Scriptural context.

 

Yet if Matt 24:29,30 is the Second Coming, Then He/Christ is the Light of this world.  Zech 14:6,7 - On that day there be no light, no cold or frost.  It will be a unique day without daytime or nighttime - a day known to the Lord.  When evening comes there will be light.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

That's not a problem at all. The sun will be dark, the moon will not give it's light and the stars will be falling from heaven. The sun being dark could easily be night time. And we know that it probably will be night time in Israel, because the falling stars will be visible. But the moon is what is really telling here. Have you ever studied the phases of the moon? The dark phase, when it is not seen is what's known as a new moon. This happens a little less than every 30 days, so it should not come as such a shock. It marks the first day of each month on the Hebrew calendar. So this also favors the rapture, not the second coming.

But here is where it gets really interesting. Not only does the new moon phase begin a new month, but this is also the same phase the moon will be in just before Roshashana (feast of trumpets). When the first sliver of the moon is witnessed, then the feast begins. As you know, the rapture will occur at the last trump. And just as Christ fulfilled all of the spring feasts during His first coming, He will likewise fulfill all of the fall feasts as well, beginning with the feast of trumpets, which usually occurs in the month of September, but sometimes at the end of August. The moon is not always seen on the first day after it goes dark. Sometimes it doesn't appear until the second day after, so no man knows the day or the hour.

Cheers

What does the fallling of the stars mean ?

Meteor showers.

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Thunder

 

Once the sun goes dark, does not give off its light and the moon goes dark;  All mankind would die within days from freezing.  Yes an ice berg.  No warming from the sun.  Really simple if one believes Scriptural context.

 

Yet if Matt 24:29,30 is the Second Coming, Then He/Christ is the Light of this world.  Zech 14:6,7 - On that day there be no light, no cold or frost.  It will be a unique day without daytime or nighttime - a day known to the Lord.  When evening comes there will be light.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

That's not a problem at all. The sun will be dark, the moon will not give it's light and the stars will be falling from heaven. The sun being dark could easily be night time. And we know that it probably will be night time in Israel, because the falling stars will be visible. But the moon is what is really telling here. Have you ever studied the phases of the moon? The dark phase, when it is not seen is what's known as a new moon. This happens a little less than every 30 days, so it should not come as such a shock. It marks the first day of each month on the Hebrew calendar. So this also favors the rapture, not the second coming.

But here is where it gets really interesting. Not only does the new moon phase begin a new month, but this is also the same phase the moon will be in just before Roshashana (feast of trumpets). When the first sliver of the moon is witnessed, then the feast begins. As you know, the rapture will occur at the last trump. And just as Christ fulfilled all of the spring feasts during His first coming, He will likewise fulfill all of the fall feasts as well, beginning with the feast of trumpets, which usually occurs in the month of September, but sometimes at the end of August. The moon is not always seen on the first day after it goes dark. Sometimes it doesn't appear until the second day after, so no man knows the day or the hour.

Cheers

 

What does the fallling of the stars mean ?

 

Meteor showers.

 

What is wormwood star ?

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