rollinTHUNDER Posted March 24, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 24, 2014 Thunder Once the sun goes dark, does not give off its light and the moon goes dark; All mankind would die within days from freezing. Yes an ice berg. No warming from the sun. Really simple if one believes Scriptural context. Yet if Matt 24:29,30 is the Second Coming, Then He/Christ is the Light of this world. Zech 14:6,7 - On that day there be no light, no cold or frost. It will be a unique day without daytime or nighttime - a day known to the Lord. When evening comes there will be light. In ChristMontana MarvThat's not a problem at all. The sun will be dark, the moon will not give it's light and the stars will be falling from heaven. The sun being dark could easily be night time. And we know that it probably will be night time in Israel, because the falling stars will be visible. But the moon is what is really telling here. Have you ever studied the phases of the moon? The dark phase, when it is not seen is what's known as a new moon. This happens a little less than every 30 days, so it should not come as such a shock. It marks the first day of each month on the Hebrew calendar. So this also favors the rapture, not the second coming.But here is where it gets really interesting. Not only does the new moon phase begin a new month, but this is also the same phase the moon will be in just before Roshashana (feast of trumpets). When the first sliver of the moon is witnessed, then the feast begins. As you know, the rapture will occur at the last trump. And just as Christ fulfilled all of the spring feasts during His first coming, He will likewise fulfill all of the fall feasts as well, beginning with the feast of trumpets, which usually occurs in the month of September, but sometimes at the end of August. The moon is not always seen on the first day after it goes dark. Sometimes it doesn't appear until the second day after, so no man knows the day or the hour.CheersWhat does the fallling of the stars mean ?Meteor showers.What is wormwood star ?If you have a point you are trying to make, please quit playing connect the dots and make your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzel Posted March 24, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 514 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 62 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/01/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1989 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I am pre-wrath, I have not 'taken sides' and find myself both disappointed and amused at the same time watching the arguments fly about. However, for the following, I would be interested in all povs and interpretations on these verses, respectfully of course, i ask. Dan 12:1-3 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever When I read this, it does not fall into my understandings of the First Resurrection, nor the Second Resurrection based on Rev 20. Perhaps I am missing a few things. Is this a whole separate Resurrection? Pre-trib - 'and the dead in Christ shall rise first' perhaps the 'shame and everlasting contempt' is as the outer heaven and gnashing of teeth because one didnt serve as one should/could have? Also, how could this be a secret rapture if people are shining like the stars and firmament? Post-trib - This reads to me that there is a resurrection of sorts at the beginning of the Great tribulation, prior to the last trumpet judgement, thoughts? I have a million other questions/arguments regarding this verse and both POV's, but lets just stick with this description of a Resurrection. Just trying to gain knowledge and understanding, not cause division, this is a learning opportunity. Yanno what, maybe we are just All right! Hi Hindsfeet, Now you're getting into my specialty. This is both the first and second resurrections. However, Daniel did not know several things. He did not know these resurrections would be separated by a thousand years. He knew nothing about the millennial reign of Christ or the Church. He did not know Messiah would die for the sins of the world, etc..... But the Jews did believe in the resurrection and prepared the bodies of the dead for the resurrection. They had no knowledge of the rapture either, for Christ had not yet come, which is why Daniel was told to shut up the words and seal the book until the time of the end...in the very next verse. The rest of this truth was beyond his comprehension, so the prophecy was stopped there, to be continued later. So knowledge would increase when the New Testament was written. It was none other than Christ, Himself that continued Daniels prophecy, beginning at (Matt.24:15). This prophecy was not very helpful to Daniel, but it is very helpful for those who will be living at the time of the end. If you'll look back to Daniel 11:36, that is the abomination of desolation. Thus, the time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation in Dan. 12:1, is known today as the great tribulation (Matt. 24:21). So it was Christ, Himself that continued Daniel's prophecy, but to understand it completely, we must add them together. Daniel mentions the dead and Christ mentions those who are alive at the time of the end. If you add what Daniel said about the dead rising, to what Christ said about gathering His elect, it equals what Paul said in 1 Thes. 4:16-17 Cheers the last trump is not the seventh trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted March 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2014 I am pre-wrath, I have not 'taken sides' and find myself both disappointed and amused at the same time watching the arguments fly about. However, for the following, I would be interested in all povs and interpretations on these verses, respectfully of course, i ask. Dan 12:1-3 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever When I read this, it does not fall into my understandings of the First Resurrection, nor the Second Resurrection based on Rev 20. Perhaps I am missing a few things. Is this a whole separate Resurrection? Pre-trib - 'and the dead in Christ shall rise first' perhaps the 'shame and everlasting contempt' is as the outer heaven and gnashing of teeth because one didnt serve as one should/could have? Also, how could this be a secret rapture if people are shining like the stars and firmament? Post-trib - This reads to me that there is a resurrection of sorts at the beginning of the Great tribulation, prior to the last trumpet judgement, thoughts? I have a million other questions/arguments regarding this verse and both POV's, but lets just stick with this description of a Resurrection. Just trying to gain knowledge and understanding, not cause division, this is a learning opportunity. Yanno what, maybe we are just All right! Hi Hindsfeet, Now you're getting into my specialty. This is both the first and second resurrections. However, Daniel did not know several things. He did not know these resurrections would be separated by a thousand years. He knew nothing about the millennial reign of Christ or the Church. He did not know Messiah would die for the sins of the world, etc..... But the Jews did believe in the resurrection and prepared the bodies of the dead for the resurrection. They had no knowledge of the rapture either, for Christ had not yet come, which is why Daniel was told to shut up the words and seal the book until the time of the end...in the very next verse. The rest of this truth was beyond his comprehension, so the prophecy was stopped there, to be continued later. So knowledge would increase when the New Testament was written. It was none other than Christ, Himself that continued Daniels prophecy, beginning at (Matt.24:15). This prophecy was not very helpful to Daniel, but it is very helpful for those who will be living at the time of the end. If you'll look back to Daniel 11:36, that is the abomination of desolation. Thus, the time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation in Dan. 12:1, is known today as the great tribulation (Matt. 24:21). So it was Christ, Himself that continued Daniel's prophecy, but to understand it completely, we must add them together. Daniel mentions the dead and Christ mentions those who are alive at the time of the end. If you add what Daniel said about the dead rising, to what Christ said about gathering His elect, it equals what Paul said in 1 Thes. 4:16-17 Cheers the last trump is not the seventh trump Well I agree with you on this point. The rapture will be fulfilled on the last trump of the feast of trumpets, just the same way that Christ fulfilled the spring feasts during His first coming. The feast of trumpets will be the first of the three remaining fall feasts, and all of them will be fulfilled when He returns. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzel Posted March 25, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 514 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 62 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/01/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1989 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I am pre-wrath, I have not 'taken sides' and find myself both disappointed and amused at the same time watching the arguments fly about. However, for the following, I would be interested in all povs and interpretations on these verses, respectfully of course, i ask. Dan 12:1-3 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever When I read this, it does not fall into my understandings of the First Resurrection, nor the Second Resurrection based on Rev 20. Perhaps I am missing a few things. Is this a whole separate Resurrection? Pre-trib - 'and the dead in Christ shall rise first' perhaps the 'shame and everlasting contempt' is as the outer heaven and gnashing of teeth because one didnt serve as one should/could have? Also, how could this be a secret rapture if people are shining like the stars and firmament? Post-trib - This reads to me that there is a resurrection of sorts at the beginning of the Great tribulation, prior to the last trumpet judgement, thoughts? I have a million other questions/arguments regarding this verse and both POV's, but lets just stick with this description of a Resurrection. Just trying to gain knowledge and understanding, not cause division, this is a learning opportunity. Yanno what, maybe we are just All right! Hi Hindsfeet, Now you're getting into my specialty. This is both the first and second resurrections. However, Daniel did not know several things. He did not know these resurrections would be separated by a thousand years. He knew nothing about the millennial reign of Christ or the Church. He did not know Messiah would die for the sins of the world, etc..... But the Jews did believe in the resurrection and prepared the bodies of the dead for the resurrection. They had no knowledge of the rapture either, for Christ had not yet come, which is why Daniel was told to shut up the words and seal the book until the time of the end...in the very next verse. The rest of this truth was beyond his comprehension, so the prophecy was stopped there, to be continued later. So knowledge would increase when the New Testament was written. It was none other than Christ, Himself that continued Daniels prophecy, beginning at (Matt.24:15). This prophecy was not very helpful to Daniel, but it is very helpful for those who will be living at the time of the end. If you'll look back to Daniel 11:36, that is the abomination of desolation. Thus, the time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation in Dan. 12:1, is known today as the great tribulation (Matt. 24:21). So it was Christ, Himself that continued Daniel's prophecy, but to understand it completely, we must add them together. Daniel mentions the dead and Christ mentions those who are alive at the time of the end. If you add what Daniel said about the dead rising, to what Christ said about gathering His elect, it equals what Paul said in 1 Thes. 4:16-17 Cheers the last trump is not the seventh trump Well I agree with you on this point. The rapture will be fulfilled on the last trump of the feast of trumpets, just the same way that Christ fulfilled the spring feasts during His first coming. The feast of trumpets will be the first of the three remaining fall feasts, and all of them will be fulfilled when He returns. Cheers My friend the stars falling are the holy angels descending not metor showers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted March 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2014 I am pre-wrath, I have not 'taken sides' and find myself both disappointed and amused at the same time watching the arguments fly about. However, for the following, I would be interested in all povs and interpretations on these verses, respectfully of course, i ask. Dan 12:1-3 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever When I read this, it does not fall into my understandings of the First Resurrection, nor the Second Resurrection based on Rev 20. Perhaps I am missing a few things. Is this a whole separate Resurrection? Pre-trib - 'and the dead in Christ shall rise first' perhaps the 'shame and everlasting contempt' is as the outer heaven and gnashing of teeth because one didnt serve as one should/could have? Also, how could this be a secret rapture if people are shining like the stars and firmament? Post-trib - This reads to me that there is a resurrection of sorts at the beginning of the Great tribulation, prior to the last trumpet judgement, thoughts? I have a million other questions/arguments regarding this verse and both POV's, but lets just stick with this description of a Resurrection. Just trying to gain knowledge and understanding, not cause division, this is a learning opportunity. Yanno what, maybe we are just All right! Hi Hindsfeet, Now you're getting into my specialty. This is both the first and second resurrections. However, Daniel did not know several things. He did not know these resurrections would be separated by a thousand years. He knew nothing about the millennial reign of Christ or the Church. He did not know Messiah would die for the sins of the world, etc..... But the Jews did believe in the resurrection and prepared the bodies of the dead for the resurrection. They had no knowledge of the rapture either, for Christ had not yet come, which is why Daniel was told to shut up the words and seal the book until the time of the end...in the very next verse. The rest of this truth was beyond his comprehension, so the prophecy was stopped there, to be continued later. So knowledge would increase when the New Testament was written. It was none other than Christ, Himself that continued Daniels prophecy, beginning at (Matt.24:15). This prophecy was not very helpful to Daniel, but it is very helpful for those who will be living at the time of the end. If you'll look back to Daniel 11:36, that is the abomination of desolation. Thus, the time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation in Dan. 12:1, is known today as the great tribulation (Matt. 24:21). So it was Christ, Himself that continued Daniel's prophecy, but to understand it completely, we must add them together. Daniel mentions the dead and Christ mentions those who are alive at the time of the end. If you add what Daniel said about the dead rising, to what Christ said about gathering His elect, it equals what Paul said in 1 Thes. 4:16-17 Cheers the last trump is not the seventh trump Well I agree with you on this point. The rapture will be fulfilled on the last trump of the feast of trumpets, just the same way that Christ fulfilled the spring feasts during His first coming. The feast of trumpets will be the first of the three remaining fall feasts, and all of them will be fulfilled when He returns. Cheers My friend the stars falling are the holy angels descending not metor showers :biggrinflip: But at least, that's a tad better than the fear of an ice berg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hindsfeet Posted March 25, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 201 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/16/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Its more than likely Both - both Literal AND Spiritual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted March 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2014 Its more than likely Both - both Literal AND Spiritual.Or neither. Not even close, both pre-trib and post-trib have holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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