Church Doctrine and Tradition of men

[Guest Butero]

 

 

I believe in the eyes of God,there is only one church,that is church of Jesus Christ,i may be right or wrong,iam open to correction,A preacher said that because of church doctrine and tradition of men,many christian will go to hell fire,do you guys agree with him,some christian doesn't celebrate christmas,they said Jesus was not born on 25th, and beside it is not biblical,and Christ did not ask us to celebrate His birth,I want to ask is it a must that every christian must celebrate christmas,is celebrating christmas biblical or tradition of men.some church said that it is not good for a christian to drink alcohol,why some encourage it,because the first miracle Jesus perform on earth,was turning water to wine.what do you think.

You mentioned two things that seem to concern you.  Nobody has to celebrate Christmas.  Nobody has to avoid a celebration of Christmas.  The Bible doesn't say one way or the other, so follow your own conscience.  As for alcohol.  Jesus turned water into wine, and we know he drank wine.  The Bible never says it is sinful to drink alcohol unless it is in excess.  Drunkenness is what is sinful.  It was asked if there is non-alcoholic wine.  There is, but in order to make it non-alcoholic, you have to first ferment it and then remove the alcohol.  There is no way I believe they did that in Bible times, so what I would say to you in that regard is if you have a problem with drinking, don't drink.  If you are ok with it in moderation, and want to drink, go for it, but be careful that it doesn't overtake you.  Drunkenness will keep you from inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven. 

 

Did Jesus drink alcoholic wine for the Lords Supper ?

 

I believe he did. 

[fruitfull77]

 

People that think they can follow any traditions whenever they want are in for a big surprise.

Following God's appointed Holydays versus man's concocted days of worship is not works-it's obedience to His commandments for a special purpose.

there is enough in the Bible to show us that it does matter to God that He expects us to follow and worship Him in spirit and truth-not in corrupted, vile practices rooted in worship of other gods.

Taking unauthorized liberty to do things such as altering God's instructions for worship and honor is sinful.

How many warnings in the Bible do we need?

We live in an age with our technology and research capable of dissecting every idol based tradition known today, so we have no excuse to fabricate theories why and when we can keep them.

We cannot serve two masters.

We cannot embrace two competing systems of worship.

By what authority did we change the days we observe when only God has the divine privilege to sanctify something.

Don't let false teachers twist scripture to suit their agenda and make changes according to their view.

However some people reason or rationalize the observances and celebrations we blindly follow, God makes it clear we must follow His directions and commandments about His days and forms of worship.

We can choose the feast days instituted by God or the holidays substituted by men.

It's your choice.

The problem with what you are saying is that God never forbids us to observe days he didn't institute as holidays.  There is nothing in scripture that says I cannot celebrate someone's birthday.  There is nothing that says I cannot celebrate the 4th of July in remembrance of the beginning of this great nation.  There is likewise nothing in scripture that says I cannot celebrate the day Jesus was born or the day he rose from the dead.  The fact some heathens celebrate idols on a particular day doesn't defile the day.  This is the day that the Lord has made, I will rejoice and be glad in it.  That can be said every single day, including December 25. 

 

God makes it clear we are worshiping in vain traditions of men. THAT IS AS FORBIDDING AS IT GETS.

There is a difference between Holy day and holiday=one is a religious observance and the other is a day for personal pleasure.

birthdays are rooted deeply in pagan traditions. Research their origins and a little astrology 

the Bible doesn't give us the specific date of Jesus birth but the time frame is nowhere near Dec 25-that date belongs to a pagan tradition.

God gives us the specific days and instructions for worshiping Him. When we decide to use pagan customs to honor God we are sinning.

You can't have it both ways.

almost everyday in todays world we have a special observance attached to them like earth day or father's day, etc. but those traditions are not corrupting God's instructions. if they do, then we need to avoid them.

[OneLight]

Romans 14:5-10

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

[Guest Butero]

We are not worshipping holidays, so what you said Fruitful is not clear at all.  There is nothing in scripture that forbids us from celebrating birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Groundhog Day, or the other holidays that come up each year.  I got out my concordance, and looked up every scripture where the word tradition and traditions was used, and none of them have anything to do with celebrating Christmas.  It is possible for someone to celebrate all of the man-made holidays as well as God's holy days.  In addition to that, One Light is correctly applying that passage from Romans 14.  We are not required to keep the feast days. 

[JohnD]

One thing I found out the hard way is that people do not want to hear the truth if it goes against what they want to believe to be true.

 

There is only one truth.

 

If you go about seeking that one truth the way the world says to or the way the denomination says to or the way the traditions of men say to... you will encounter a "truth" that cannot be defended. There will always be another version that contradicts that version.

 

2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV)
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

Mark 7:7-13 (KJV)
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

Human kind is incurably religious. We love the long robes and the pointy hats and ceremonial rites and on and on and you will notice every successful world religion or cult uses these to appeal to that side of people... Roman hijack Christianity by "legalizing" it in the Empire, and the beleaguered believers were happy to just climb out of the holes they'd been hiding in for centuries by that time. And from the get go Constantine and Mum set out to build a religion of state with the name Jesus and Mary on it. 

 

1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

 

1 John 4:1 (KJV)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

Acts 17:11 (KJV)
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

Notice the Bible does not say go to pastor ricky or the catechisms or papal bulls and decrees... or denominational platforms or denominational party lines... but the Bible (which the aforementioned traditions of men actually nullify).

[fruitfull77]

We are not worshipping holidays, so what you said Fruitful is not clear at all.  There is nothing in scripture that forbids us from celebrating birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Groundhog Day, or the other holidays that come up each year.  I got out my concordance, and looked up every scripture where the word tradition and traditions was used, and none of them have anything to do with celebrating Christmas.  It is possible for someone to celebrate all of the man-made holidays as well as God's holy days.  In addition to that, One Light is correctly applying that passage from Romans 14.  We are not required to keep the feast days. 

You have to go deeper than a concordance to find the origins of birthdays and easter, and the likes of christmas. You have to to look into ancient history, encyclopedias, bible hand books, and the Babylonian practices. we can easily lose sight  of the special meanings of God's holy days when we vary or alter  the dates and times God instituted for us to observe. these days were meant.to be kept forever and ever, they were not temporary or part of Moses law.

God said in Deut 12;32-do not add to what I command you to observe.

Your duty is to " prove all things "-the problem with many of those man made holidays is they correspond  with many pagan practices.

We are to follow God's examples.not our personal reasoning. 

Christmas and easter were not celebrated in the bible  although the OT refers to pagan customs that were adopted to those traditions we now keep with christ as the central figure.

Jesus, and the apostles kept God's feast day years after the birth of the NTChurch-it wasn;t until hundreds of years later false teaches started to amalgamate local customs with God's festivals until they were nothing like the original Holy days God ordained.

what do you have to lose when you celebrate God's Holydays? Other than eternal life.

why the adversity to it all?

[His_disciple3]

I can shed a little light on the drinking issue from scriptures; as someone has already pointed out the drunkard is the condemned not the drinker. if the wine that is spoke of in the New Testament is not fermented, then it would be forbidden for a bishop to drink grape juice, and if a Bishop can't drink grape juice, then it would be wrong for them to partake in the Lord's supper observance.

Titus 1:7
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
KJV

1 Tim 3:2-3
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
KJV

but now a Deacon can have a little grape juice/wine;

1 Tim 3:8
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
KJV

 

but now please take note some say that a bishop is the same as a pastor, if this is the case, then to those who use fermented wine at your communion service, your pastor is violating a qualification of his office, right in front of the whole church

I wonder to those who preach new testament wine wasn't fermented as my Mom was taught. what is the bad effect on drinking too much grape juice that a deacon is not given to much grape juice? now please don't overlook the fact that the bishop must also be the HUSBAND of one wife. not the Wife of one Husband. yeah it does say rightly dividing the word of truth!

[Butch5]

I believe in the eyes of God,there is only one church,that is church of Jesus Christ,i may be right or wrong,iam open to correction,A preacher said that because of church doctrine and tradition of men,many christian will go to hell fire,do you guys agree with him,some christian doesn't celebrate christmas,they said Jesus was not born on 25th, and beside it is not biblical,and Christ did not ask us to celebrate His birth,I want to ask is it a must that every christian must celebrate christmas,is celebrating christmas biblical or tradition of men.some church said that it is not good for a christian to drink alcohol,why some encourage it,because the first miracle Jesus perform on earth,was turning water to wine.what do you think.

Hi Jerry,

 

I don't celebrate Christmas because it's not a Christian holiday. The Church swallowed up the pagan holiday of the Saturnalia. There were pagan celebrations that centered around Dec. 25 and the winter solstice the shortest day of the year. They saw this as a renewing as the days began to get longer. As more and more pagans turned to Christianity the church incorporated their holiday. Also, Jesus wasn't born on Dec 25. I believe He was born on Sept 12 3BC. 

 

The reason I don't celebrate Christmas is twofold, one, it's not from Scripture, and two In Deuteronomy God specifically told the Jews that they were not to worship Him the way the pagans worshiped their gods.  If you look at Christmas and the celebrations they are they way the pagans worshiped their gods. The pagans used trees, wreaths, lights, etc and all of these are found in Christmas celebrations.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

I believe in the eyes of God,there is only one church,that is church of Jesus Christ,i may be right or wrong,iam open to correction,A preacher said that because of church doctrine and tradition of men,many christian will go to hell fire,do you guys agree with him,some christian doesn't celebrate christmas,they said Jesus was not born on 25th, and beside it is not biblical,and Christ did not ask us to celebrate His birth,I want to ask is it a must that every christian must celebrate christmas,is celebrating christmas biblical or tradition of men.some church said that it is not good for a christian to drink alcohol,why some encourage it,because the first miracle Jesus perform on earth,was turning water to wine.what do you think.

Hi Jerry,

 

I don't celebrate Christmas because it's not a Christian holiday. The Church swallowed up the pagan holiday of the Saturnalia. There were pagan celebrations that centered around Dec. 25 and the winter solstice the shortest day of the year. They saw this as a renewing as the days began to get longer. As more and more pagans turned to Christianity the church incorporated their holiday. Also, Jesus wasn't born on Dec 25. I believe He was born on Sept 12 3BC. 

 

The reason I don't celebrate Christmas is twofold, one, it's not from Scripture, and two In Deuteronomy God specifically told the Jews that they were not to worship Him the way the pagans worshiped their gods.  If you look at Christmas and the celebrations they are they way the pagans worshiped their gods. The pagans used trees, wreaths, lights, etc and all of these are found in Christmas celebrations.

 

Actually there is no archeological evidence of ancients employing modern Christmas traditions.  A lot of that is made up history revisionism.   Most modern Christmas traditions sprung up after the Reformation in Europe, not in ancient times. 

 

It's really no different than those who claim that the story of Jesus' life is actually a retelling of the story of the birth, life and death/resurrection of Horus or some other pagan god.  I have found a lot of really revisionist history and outright lies in people's attempts to tag Christianity as a pagan religion.

[Izzel]

 

We are not worshipping holidays, so what you said Fruitful is not clear at all.  There is nothing in scripture that forbids us from celebrating birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Groundhog Day, or the other holidays that come up each year.  I got out my concordance, and looked up every scripture where the word tradition and traditions was used, and none of them have anything to do with celebrating Christmas.  It is possible for someone to celebrate all of the man-made holidays as well as God's holy days.  In addition to that, One Light is correctly applying that passage from Romans 14.  We are not required to keep the feast days. 

You have to go deeper than a concordance to find the origins of birthdays and easter, and the likes of christmas. You have to to look into ancient history, encyclopedias, bible hand books, and the Babylonian practices. we can easily lose sight  of the special meanings of God's holy days when we vary or alter  the dates and times God instituted for us to observe. these days were meant.to be kept forever and ever, they were not temporary or part of Moses law.

God said in Deut 12;32-do not add to what I command you to observe.

Your duty is to " prove all things "-the problem with many of those man made holidays is they correspond  with many pagan practices.

We are to follow God's examples.not our personal reasoning. 

Christmas and easter were not celebrated in the bible  although the OT refers to pagan customs that were adopted to those traditions we now keep with christ as the central figure.

Jesus, and the apostles kept God's feast day years after the birth of the NTChurch-it wasn;t until hundreds of years later false teaches started to amalgamate local customs with God's festivals until they were nothing like the original Holy days God ordained.

what do you have to lose when you celebrate God's Holydays? Other than eternal life.

why the adversity to it all?

 

What feast days do you keep and why ?