Sex scandals in the Church

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"Some people are afraid that God will punish them for their sins, but the true fear of God, yirat ha'shamayim, is rather the fear of losing our closeness to Him... The sages say that where it is written, "What does the LORD ask of you except to fear the LORD" (Deut. 10:12), we should read instead, "fear with the LORD" (לְיִרְאָה אֶת־יְהוָה), that is, we share his concern that we could forfeit the sanctity of a heart-relationship with Him due to carelessness and sin... We fear our sin because it blinds us from awareness of God's care and love. The fear of God can therefore be understood as God's fear that we will miss the blessing of intimately knowing him."

 

Source

Why should I believe this is right?  Why should I accept that we shouldn't fear the Lord will punish us for our sins when we have scriptural examples of God punishing people because of sin?  Why should we change the way we look at how we should fear the Lord?  How do I know the way you preach is correct? 

 

 

Why do you find it preferable to be motivated by fear of punishment rather than fear of losing closeness with God?

[Guest Butero]

 

 

"Some people are afraid that God will punish them for their sins, but the true fear of God, yirat ha'shamayim, is rather the fear of losing our closeness to Him... The sages say that where it is written, "What does the LORD ask of you except to fear the LORD" (Deut. 10:12), we should read instead, "fear with the LORD" (לְיִרְאָה אֶת־יְהוָה), that is, we share his concern that we could forfeit the sanctity of a heart-relationship with Him due to carelessness and sin... We fear our sin because it blinds us from awareness of God's care and love. The fear of God can therefore be understood as God's fear that we will miss the blessing of intimately knowing him."

 

Source

Why should I believe this is right?  Why should I accept that we shouldn't fear the Lord will punish us for our sins when we have scriptural examples of God punishing people because of sin?  Why should we change the way we look at how we should fear the Lord?  How do I know the way you preach is correct? 

 

 

Why do you find it preferable to be motivated by fear of punishment rather than fear of losing closeness with God?

 

I don't sit around and make a choice to do one or the other.  I just know I don't want to end up like David after his sin, Lot's wife, Cain, Ananias and Saphira, Herod, or anyone else that is punished for iniquity.  I also don't buy into the notion that the worst thing about hell is eternal separation from God.  That is a terrible thought, but having to burn forever in the flames of hell and being tormented forever seems worse to me. 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

"Some people are afraid that God will punish them for their sins, but the true fear of God, yirat ha'shamayim, is rather the fear of losing our closeness to Him... The sages say that where it is written, "What does the LORD ask of you except to fear the LORD" (Deut. 10:12), we should read instead, "fear with the LORD" (לְיִרְאָה אֶת־יְהוָה), that is, we share his concern that we could forfeit the sanctity of a heart-relationship with Him due to carelessness and sin... We fear our sin because it blinds us from awareness of God's care and love. The fear of God can therefore be understood as God's fear that we will miss the blessing of intimately knowing him."

 

Source

Why should I believe this is right?  Why should I accept that we shouldn't fear the Lord will punish us for our sins when we have scriptural examples of God punishing people because of sin?  Why should we change the way we look at how we should fear the Lord?  How do I know the way you preach is correct? 

 

 

Why do you find it preferable to be motivated by fear of punishment rather than fear of losing closeness with God?

 

You should read what Jesus said to some of the churches in the book of Revelation and the punishment they would face from Him if they didn't repent.  You should note what He said to the people at the church at Pergamos and the judgment He threatened them with due to the immorality that taking place in that congregation.

[nebula]

You should read what Jesus said to some of the churches in the book of Revelation and the punishment they would face from Him if they didn't repent.  You should note what He said to the people at the church at Pergamos and the judgment He threatened them with due to the immorality that taking place in that congregation.

 

If you had children, would you want them to obey you out of fear, or would you want them to want to do that which pleases you out of love?

 

I've lived fear-obedience for my father. It was a horrible place to be.

[Guest Butero]

MOREOVER, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea.

2  And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3  And did all eat the same spiritual meat:

4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink:  for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them:  and that Rock was Christ.

5  But with many of them God was not well pleased:  for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6  Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

7  Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them, as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

8  Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9  Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

10  Neither murmur ye as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

11  Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples, and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 

 

1 Corinthians 10:1-11

 

This kind of sounds like Paul is trying to teach us to fear God, and using examples to do it.  You mentioned fear obedience of your Father.  I don't know exactly what that means in your case.  I don't know if he was just a strict disciplinarian or someone who would just snap for no reason and beat you.  I don't know what that means, so I am making no direct judgments in your case, but there is no question we are taught that children should fear their parents. 

 

Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of corrections shall drive it far from him.  Proverbs 22:15

 

He that spareth his rod hateth his son:  but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.  Proverbs 13:24

 

That means that this child obeys his parents in order to avoid punishment.  Fear is the motivating factor. 

[ajchurney]

Why is this such a huge problem, especially among those who preach against premarital sex, adultery, etc., the most?

 

‘Survivor’ Bloggers Join Forces to Reveal Christian Fundamentalist Abuses

All sin begins with thinking about it, as the battlefield of Christianity for the individual is in the mind. In Rom 12:1-2, we are given the way of the Spirit and life, and this is to continually submit ourselves to God as a true offering, and resist and refuse to be conformed to the things of the world, but be transformed by the renewing process of the Spirit. Our culture is saturated with overt sexuality, so if one does not guard the "gates" of the senses from this sexual frenzy, one will be conformed to it, instead of being transformed into the image of Christ, thinking with the mind of Christ and not the mind of perversion. I also agree with several of the posts that one must be particularly sensitive and guarded to these truths as a leader. Satanic tempters will always prefer the "bigger" target, as taking out the leader usually, if not always, has a domino effect of discouragement and disillusionment in the followers of the fallen leader. I believe it is wise to guard against tempting thoughts first, and tempting situations as well, as Shiloh wrote of.

[nebula]

I pray dome day you come to know the love of God in such a deep way that it motivates you to want to love and want to do what pleases Him just because your heart cries, "Abba!"

 

 

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge , that if one died for all, then were all dead :

15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again .

16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away ; behold , all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

2 Cor. 5:14-21

 

 

Being afraid of a parent's wrath is no way to develop a healthy relationship with them.

 

In fact, children that are motivated by fear are more likely to turn to rebellion once they are out from their parents' roof, or they marry into an abusive, fear-motivating marriage. They are also more likely to hate themselves, because they never consider themselves good enough.

 

 

Now I'm not denying that there is a place for repect-fear. But if your fear is for your self preservation, how is that putting God first in your life? Is that not putting yourself first?

[Sevenseas]

So what was God's motivation in sending His Son to die on our behalf?

 

Fear?...no it was LOVE

 

God is Love. He is not fear.  Perfect love (God's love) casts out fear.

 

Fear is a lack of knowledge of WHO God is.

 

I want to obey out of love for my Creator...not because I am afraid.  If I am afraid, I will also be resentful, judgemental and I will want to hide from Him.

 

Moses broke the tablets in anger at the sin in the camp of the Israelites...

 

God Himself tore the temple curtain in half to reveal His heart of love.

 

 

Believers are not to be scared of God. We have no reason to be scared of Him. We have His promise that nothing can separate us from His love (Romans 8:38-39). We have His promise that He will never leave us or forsake us (Hebrews 13:5). Fearing God means having such a reverence for Him that it has a great impact on the way we live our lives. The fear of God is respecting Him, obeying Him, submitting to His discipline, and worshipping Him in awe.

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/fear-God.html#ixzz2xMZcSA8z

[Sevenseas]

 

 

That means that this child obeys his parents in order to avoid punishment.  Fear is the motivating factor

 

 

I am surprised you do not know what God Himself says regarding what emotion we should have towards Him.

 

"You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."  Deut 6:5

 

and Jesus said the same thing in more than one gospel

 

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.  Matt. 22:37

 

 

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."  John 3:16

 

If God's love casts out fear, then why on earth would anyone believe and teach otherwise?  Stating that fear is the motivating factor behind obedience, illustrates

a harsh and unloving parent and a harsh and unloving God.

 

I loved my father and wanted to please him.  

 

We have a lopsided idea of Who God is if we believe He wants us to serve Him out of fear.

 

How on earth can you LOVE someone out of fear?  It makes no sense at all.

[LookingForAnswers]

hmmm...seems it might be a bit of both...

 

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever

 

so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the LORD your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life.

 

But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

 

And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

 

A child should do things out of love, but the reality is that the fear of punishment also has to come into play.  Anyone that suggest that a child would 100% of the time obey their parents without the fear of a punishment is too old and has forgotten their childhood.

Edited March 29, 2014 by LookingForAnswers