TWO comings TWO raptures

[Montana Marv]

And who does Christ rule over with a "rod of iron" during the Mill. if all have received their new glorified bodies.

 

And who did Saul see on the road to Damascus at his conversion (was this also a coming of Christ) 

 

Christ came once as a suffering servant.  He will return as the Kings of Kings and the Lord of Lords.  Yet the Rapture is not a coming to earth, but a retrieval of the Bride (we meet Him is the Air) - (not on the earth).  And yet the five foolish virgins will be scratching their heads when the five wise virgins are gone.  So keep watch, for you do not know when the Bridegroom will come.  Five caught up, Five left behind to buy oil from others also left behind.  This does not fit the Post Trib man made theory very well.  Either it is all done at the end, or the end is not yet there.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Salty]

And who does Christ rule over with a "rod of iron" during the Mill. if all have received their new glorified bodies.

 

And who did Saul see on the road to Damascus at his conversion (was this also a coming of Christ) 

 

Christ came once as a suffering servant.  He will return as the Kings of Kings and the Lord of Lords.  Yet the Rapture is not a coming to earth, but a retrieval of the Bride (we meet Him is the Air) - (not on the earth).  And yet the five foolish virgins will be scratching their heads when the five wise virgins are gone.  So keep watch, for you do not know when the Bridegroom will come.  Five caught up, Five left behind to buy oil from others also left behind.  This does not fit the Post Trib man made theory very well.  Either it is all done at the end, or the end is not yet there.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

The "spiritual body" is a body type, the "image of the heavenly", not the "image of the earthy". What is the "image of the earthy" we have? A flesh body.

 

Where Apostle Paul was pulling from in Isaiah 25 is about all peoples, all nations, having the vail cast over them removed. But Christ's Salvation involves one's soul putting on immortality. The souls of the wicked will not have put on that immortality. But they will put on the incorruptible type body, yet their souls will still be in a 'liable to die' state.

 

This is what Apostle Paul covered in the Greek of 1 Cor.15 when speaking that corruption must put on incorruption, and, this mortal must put on immortality. That's 2 separate changes to our being, not just one. The wicked will go through the first change, but not the second. This is why the wicked will still be subject to the "second death". It is why there can be such a thing as a "resurrection of damnation". You do understand the resurrection at Jesus' coming is not one to another flesh body, right? Even back in Eccl.12:5-7 we were shown exactly what happens at flesh death, with our flesh body going back to the elements of the earth where it came from, but our spirit going back to God. Or in 2 Cor.5 where Paul said if our earthy house is dissolved we have another house, a building of God, not made with hands (i.e., not flesh), but eternal in the heavens.

 

Per Zech.14, Christ's coming is back to this earth. Per 1 Thess.4, Jesus brings the asleep saints with Him when He comes back to earth, and then gathers His elect on earth to be with Him, and those asleep saints, in Jerusalem. He is not coming to gather us to Heaven to wait out the tribulation, for that idea is not written, it is a doctrine of men.

[Montana Marv]

Salty

 

Here is your quote from above (man made doctrine); Per Zech.14, Christ's coming is back to this earth. Per 1 Thess.4, Jesus brings the asleep saints with Him when He comes back to earth, and then gathers His elect on earth to be with Him, and those asleep saints, in Jerusalem. He is not coming to gather us to Heaven to wait out the tribulation, for that idea is not written, it is a doctrine of men.

 

This position of yours is way off the mark.  John 14:2-4 negates what you have said.  In my Fathers house are many rooms, if it were not so, I would have told you.  I go there to prepare a place for you.  And if I go and [prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you my be where I am.  You know the way to the place where I am going.

 

Lets put this in common sense vernacular.  In my Fathers house are many rooms, if this were not the case I would have told you so, but this is fact from Me to you the Bride.  I am going to my Fathers house to prepare a place for you My Bride, and I will come back and take you (Rapture you) to be with Me, that you may be with me in my Fathers house.  You know the way to the place where I am going (My Fathers house).  The Rapture brings us, takes us up to the Fathers house.  No where in Scripture do I see Christ coming to take us directly into the Mill, thus bypassing our time in the Fathers house.  The five wise virgins made it up into the Fathers house, and the door was shut.  The five foolish virgins were left to fight it out on earth during the 70th Week of Daniel.  I side with the five wise virgins who made it to the Wedding Supper of the Lamb.  Watch and be ready, because the Bridegroom will come at a time when no one expects Him.  Only the Father in heaven knows when this will happen.  Yet Post trib expects Him at the Second Coming.  Contradicts Scripture.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Guest Jesse]

To all.

 

Regarding the bride of Christ.

Holy Jerusalem will be on earth with christ ruling.Rev 21.

And his church is perfect and clean. Knowledge will cover the earth as the sea cover the earth.

All will know God. Blessed is he that is invited in.

When all His work is done on earth; God will take over the kingdom.

Jesus will be subject to God. God will speak face to face. His Word will be back inside God

as it was before the beginning;before creation;The word was God:   At creation; the Word was with God.

This is another topic.         John 16:27---- that I came out from God.

 

jesse.

[Salty]

Salty

 

Here is your quote from above (man made doctrine); Per Zech.14, Christ's coming is back to this earth. Per 1 Thess.4, Jesus brings the asleep saints with Him when He comes back to earth, and then gathers His elect on earth to be with Him, and those asleep saints, in Jerusalem. He is not coming to gather us to Heaven to wait out the tribulation, for that idea is not written, it is a doctrine of men.

 

This position of yours is way off the mark.  John 14:2-4 negates what you have said.  In my Fathers house are many rooms, if it were not so, I would have told you.  I go there to prepare a place for you.  And if I go and [prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you my be where I am.  You know the way to the place where I am going.

 

Lets put this in common sense vernacular.  In my Fathers house are many rooms, if this were not the case I would have told you so, but this is fact from Me to you the Bride.  I am going to my Fathers house to prepare a place for you My Bride, and I will come back and take you (Rapture you) to be with Me, that you may be with me in my Fathers house.  You know the way to the place where I am going (My Fathers house).  The Rapture brings us, takes us up to the Fathers house.  No where in Scripture do I see Christ coming to take us directly into the Mill, thus bypassing our time in the Fathers house.  The five wise virgins made it up into the Fathers house, and the door was shut.  The five foolish virgins were left to fight it out on earth during the 70th Week of Daniel.  I side with the five wise virgins who made it to the Wedding Supper of the Lamb.  Watch and be ready, because the Bridegroom will come at a time when no one expects Him.  Only the Father in heaven knows when this will happen.  Yet Post trib expects Him at the Second Coming.  Contradicts Scripture.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

My position is what God's Holy Writ teaches, now that clearly is 'off the mark' with doctrines of men that teach we're going to be secretly raptured to live up in the clouds during the tribulation, because Christ's coming like He said is after the great tribulation He warned about (Matt.24:29-31). The heavenly is going to be revealed on earth at His coming, which is why every eye shall see His coming per Rev.1. He only comes once for the end, not several times.

 

As for the John 14 verses you quoted, that word "mansions" (KJV) means 'abodes' per the Greek. It's about the abodes of the priests in the future Millennial temple mentioned in Ezekiel 40 forward. That temple is on the earth, even as areas like Engedi in the Middle East are shown in connection with God's River of the waters of life, and the tree of life (Ezek.47). In those Ezekiel 40 forward chapters, that Millennium sanctuary on earth is called God's House. That vision Ezekiel was given is what Apostle John was seeing in Rev.21-22, the Ezekiel one has more detail, for it reveals that River and the many trees exactly where it will be on earth.

 

But what the Pre-Trib Rapture school is teaching instead, is that prior to the tribulation we are raptured to Heaven by a secret coming of Christ, and live there waiting out the tribulation, and then reign from Heaven with Jesus. That is a doctrine of men that began in 1830's Great Britain. John Darby pushed that, as he got the idea from the Edward Irving church. Later proponents like Cyrus Scofield created a study Bible that pushed it in the Americas. Those ideas go opposite to God's written Word.

 

One example is how they completely mis-teach 1 Thess.4 where Paul said Jesus will bring the 'asleep' saints with Him when He comes. Bring them where, when Jesus comes where? For the Pre-trib theory to be correct it cannot have Christ Jesus coming to earth at all with His saints until after His Millennium reign, because per their man-made doctrines we're supposed to gathered to Heaven and reign in Heaven with Christ, right? But no, that isn't right. Jesus is coming here, to this earth at His coming, bringing those 'asleep' saints with Him when He comes, and then His saints still alive on earth are changed and gathered with them, to go to Jerusalem on earth.

 

Like the angels in Acts 1 declared to Christ's disciples who watched Him ascend to Heaven, they said He will come "in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11). Zechariah 14 is another Bible witness to that fact and linked that timing with the 'day of The Lord' timing, which Apostle Paul also did in 1 Thess.5 with the idea of Christ coming "as a thief in the night."

 

What does the Pre-trib Rapture school teach about Christ coming "as a thief in the night"? They teach their members that's when Jesus will come to 'gather' them to Heaven, like your 'Bridegroom' not being expected statement.

 

Yet the Zechariah 14:1-5 Scripture has Jesus' feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives on the day of The Lord, bringing all His saints with Him. Apostle Paul linked the coming of the day of The Lord with the "as a thief" timing per 1 Thess.5. The Mount of Olives is where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1.

 

So all one need do is simply read and heed The Scriptures as they are written. The Pre-trib Rapture school is not doing that.

[Guest Jesse]

Christ is coming with His saints.

Who are these saints? They of course are the first fruits. see rev.14:1

The rest of the harvest will be harvested in rev.14:14--20.

First the harvest of the wheat, then stored first, untill the kingdom on earth is set up.

Next the harvest of the ripe grapes,and put through the wine press.(armageddon).

Blood will be flowing to a horse gridle. All that will happen after the tribulation; after the test, after the purifying.

After the saints have been given white robes,rev.7:9--14.

 

jesse.

[Hindsfeet]

Question:

Does this view of the Seals and Trumpets being opened concurrently fall into and referred to as the 'post trib' view/belief?

[Guest Jesse]

Question:

Does this view of the Seals and Trumpets being opened concurrently fall into and referred to as the 'post trib' view/belief?

The two first seals has happened.The gospel has been preached in all nations.and the first and second ww.

The 3rd seal is happening now.This world is in darkness,physically and spiritually.The falling away is started.

The 4th seal is coming; the days of the rule of the false prophet.He will be revealed soon.

The 5th seal is just showing the marters of Christ in the past waiting for God's revenge.

And God said : wait a little longer untill all your brethren also will be killed.

This is coming. The false prophet will kill some christians, and many put in camps.

The 6th seal is just showing the signs of his coming,starting with the first trumpet to the last trump.

This is when we will see the sun darkened etc,etc,before the 7th trumpet.

At the coming;Chris will be in the air for a while to give the nations time to gather together to make war with the Lamb.

In the meantime the angel will do the reaping of the wheat.Rev.14:14--20.

Then another angel will do the reaping of the ripe grapes. The wine press is armageddon.

The armies of the nations will be buried in the valey of hinom(jehosaphat).east of Jerusalem.

 

jesse.

[Salty]

Christ is coming with His saints.

Who are these saints? They of course are the first fruits. see rev.14:1

The rest of the harvest will be harvested in rev.14:14--20.

First the harvest of the wheat, then stored first, untill the kingdom on earth is set up.

Next the harvest of the ripe grapes,and put through the wine press.(armageddon).

Blood will be flowing to a horse gridle. All that will happen after the tribulation; after the test, after the purifying.

After the saints have been given white robes,rev.7:9--14.

 

jesse.

 

That's that same doctrine of men called the Pre-Tribulational Rapture theory. It is not written in God's Word. You have the events out of order because that's what the Pre-Trib school teaches, not from God's Word.

 

Christ returns only once, on the Day of The Lord, as He said he comes "as a thief" per Rev.16:15. Apostle Paul and Peter both taught the Day of The Lord will comes "as a thief" (1 Thess.5; 2 Pet.3:10). The Day of The Lord events end the great tribulation timing Jesus spoke of. On that day, Jesus brings the 'asleep' saints with Him on His way back to this earth, and His saints alive on earth are changed "at the twinkling of an eye" and gathered with Him, then He and both groups go to Jerusalem on earth. As written in Rev.3, His elect saints rule on the earth, not from Heaven away from the earth. Armageddon happens on the 7th vial as written in Rev.16, which is Day of The Lord timing, the last day of this present world.

 

The Pre-Trib Rapture doctors are telling tall tales, mis-placing the timing of Christ's coming to gather His Church, and the timing of the Day of The Lord, and where Jesus returns to with His saints.

[Salty]

Question:

Does this view of the Seals and Trumpets being opened concurrently fall into and referred to as the 'post trib' view/belief?

 

Not necessarily, because many who hold to post-trib also like pre-trib look at the seals, trumpets, and vials being chronological instead of in parallel.

 

Something to note, for 1,800 years, the Christian Church has held to a post-tribulation coming of Christ Jesus and gathering of His Church. Only in the 1830's did the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine become introduced in some churches, first in Great Britain.