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PRE-TRIBBERS Please Explain


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BTW the 6th Trumpet most likely will happen sometime after the 6 year of the 70th Week (seven years).  The mark of the beast will begin in year 1 of the 70th week.  I see no problem with those who not receive this mark at this time.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Marv,

You can't be serious, but somehow, I know you are. How did you come to believe the mark of the beast will be implemented in the first year of Daniel's 70th week??

Cheers

Thunder

 

Rev 13:10 - If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go, if anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed.  v. 16 (false prophet) - He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead.  Now the 5th Seal - I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain (beheaded) because: they received the mark or they did not receive the mark of the beast.  And this follows Seals 1,2,3,4.

 

There is complete chaos during the second half of the week.  There is peace of sorts during the first half of the week.  Complete chaos is not an environment for a forced buy sell time.  On the other hand,a time of peace is a better environment for a controlled forced buy sell time.  A One world government controlling one currency.  Therefore they control all buying and selling and controlling it.  Then captives and those being killed by the sword are a result not having the mark of the beast.  First half the the 70th week.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Marv,

That's odd. You base your belief on your assumption that the mark will be enforced in the first year, yet the scriptures you base your belief on take place (after) the abomination of desolation. I'm sure that you are aware that the AoD occurs in the middle of the seven years.

Revelation 13:5-10

(5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

(6) And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

(7) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

(8) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

(9) If any man have an ear, let him hear.

(10) He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

But it is the second beast that rises up afterward, that forces the world to worship the first beast and to take his mark.

Revelation 13:11-17

(11) And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

(12) And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

(13) And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

(14) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

(15) And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

(16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

(17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

You are well versed in the art of assumptions. And it is assumptions like these that have created the pre-trib theory.

Cheers

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Thunder

 

My Scriptures were on both sides of the A/D:  Rev 13 all in the first half of the week. One beast comes out of the "sea", which had ten horns (this is an empire or kingdom).  One of the heads (leader/human, yet also called a beast) of the beast (empire) had a fatal wound by a sword an yet lived (v.3 and 14b).  The whole world was astonished and followed the beast (with the fatal wound).  This indicates a time of peace, for all follow.  Israel lives in peace at this time. 

 

example; when your children follow your instructions there is peace in the house (they my not like the instructions), but they follow them.  Then what happens when they do not follow your instructions, some form of chaos develops (a butting of heads, go to your room or a spanking).  This will be like those who do not accept the mark (a butting of heads) and followed by discipline which is (Captivity - [go to your bedroom] or being killed by the sword - spanking (Rev 12:1

 

The thing is those who do not accept the mark will consist of two groups; First being the tribulations saints, most who are killed by the sword - many being beheaded, Secondly being non saints, those of which will be ushered into the Mill, all of this group would have gone into captivity.

 

This first part of the example is the environment during the first half the the 70th week.  A prime time to issue the mark of the beast to be able to buy and sell.  Yet when the Second Seal is opened peace is taken from the earth.

 

This is why I say the 2nd Seal is definitely after the A/D.  A collapse of the structure of the first half of the 70th week.  It becomes a free for all.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

PS  What assumptions will you give us.

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Thunder

 

My Scriptures were on both sides of the A/D:  Rev 13 all in the first half of the week. One beast comes out of the "sea", which had ten horns (this is an empire or kingdom).  One of the heads (leader/human, yet also called a beast) of the beast (empire) had a fatal wound by a sword an yet lived (v.3 and 14b).  The whole world was astonished and followed the beast (with the fatal wound).  This indicates a time of peace, for all follow.  Israel lives in peace at this time. 

 

example; when your children follow your instructions there is peace in the house (they my not like the instructions), but they follow them.  Then what happens when they do not follow your instructions, some form of chaos develops (a butting of heads, go to your room or a spanking).  This will be like those who do not accept the mark (a butting of heads) and followed by discipline which is (Captivity - [go to your bedroom] or being killed by the sword - spanking (Rev 12:1

 

The thing is those who do not accept the mark will consist of two groups; First being the tribulations saints, most who are killed by the sword - many being beheaded, Secondly being non saints, those of which will be ushered into the Mill, all of this group would have gone into captivity.

 

This first part of the example is the environment during the first half the the 70th week.  A prime time to issue the mark of the beast to be able to buy and sell.  Yet when the Second Seal is opened peace is taken from the earth.

 

This is why I say the 2nd Seal is definitely after the A/D.  A collapse of the structure of the first half of the 70th week.  It becomes a free for all.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

PS  What assumptions will you give us.

A confirming of a covenant for 7 years does not create a kingdom or empire, nor would it cause everyone to follow and/or worship him.

Let me ask you this: We have two beast's, one coming out of the sea and the other coming out of the earth, are one of these the antichrist? If so, which one, and why?

Cheers

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Thunder

 

Neither.

 

The beast coming up out of the sea is a kingdom with ten horns (leaders).  One of these leaders or more are killed by a sword.  One of these individuals that is wound is healed and be becomes alive again (type of resurrection), this is the A/C.  .  The beast out of the earth is the False Prophet,  He is not the A/C

 

Further in Rev we see the beast and the false prophet (both of which are later thrown alive into the Lake of Fire) and the Dragon (Satan) calling for the armies of the earth to battle Christ at Armageddon.  When did Satan come the scene?  Possibly the white horse of the 1st Seal.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv
 

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Thunder

 

Neither.

 

The beast coming up out of the sea is a kingdom with ten horns (leaders).  One of these leaders or more are killed by a sword.  One of these individuals that is wound is healed and be becomes alive again (type of resurrection), this is the A/C.  .  The beast out of the earth is the False Prophet,  He is not the A/C

 

Further in Rev we see the beast and the false prophet (both of which are later thrown alive into the Lake of Fire) and the Dragon (Satan) calling for the armies of the earth to battle Christ at Armageddon.  When did Satan come the scene?  Possibly the white horse of the 1st Seal.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

The beast out of the earth is not the false prophet 

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Izzel

 

Scripture please.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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Izzel

 

Scripture please.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

you know the scripture and the beast out of the earth is america 

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the saints are gathered after the tribulation at the last trumpet and NOT BEFORE . As Jesus descends , the saints ascends to meet him in the air   (1st heaven) on the clouds .Then the angels gathers them on the clouds where they will then transport the saints from all over the world to Mt Zion  in Jerusalem to rule with Christ 1000yrs .

What happens after Jesus 1000yr rule?

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Thunder

 

My Scriptures were on both sides of the A/D:  Rev 13 all in the first half of the week. One beast comes out of the "sea", which had ten horns (this is an empire or kingdom).  One of the heads (leader/human, yet also called a beast) of the beast (empire) had a fatal wound by a sword an yet lived (v.3 and 14b).  The whole world was astonished and followed the beast (with the fatal wound).  This indicates a time of peace, for all follow.  Israel lives in peace at this time. 

 

example; when your children follow your instructions there is peace in the house (they my not like the instructions), but they follow them.  Then what happens when they do not follow your instructions, some form of chaos develops (a butting of heads, go to your room or a spanking).  This will be like those who do not accept the mark (a butting of heads) and followed by discipline which is (Captivity - [go to your bedroom] or being killed by the sword - spanking (Rev 12:1

 

The thing is those who do not accept the mark will consist of two groups; First being the tribulations saints, most who are killed by the sword - many being beheaded, Secondly being non saints, those of which will be ushered into the Mill, all of this group would have gone into captivity.

 

This first part of the example is the environment during the first half the the 70th week.  A prime time to issue the mark of the beast to be able to buy and sell.  Yet when the Second Seal is opened peace is taken from the earth.

 

This is why I say the 2nd Seal is definitely after the A/D.  A collapse of the structure of the first half of the 70th week.  It becomes a free for all.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

PS  What assumptions will you give us.

A confirming of a covenant for 7 years does not create a kingdom or empire, nor would it cause everyone to follow and/or worship him.

Let me ask you this: We have two beast's, one coming out of the sea and the other coming out of the earth, are one of these the antichrist? If so, which one, and why?

Cheers

 

Who is a Anti Christ ? :hmmm:

 

Therefore both are antichrist  :clap:

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Izzel

 

Scripture please.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

you know the scripture and the beast out of the earth is america 

 

So is American thrown alive into the Lake of Fire (which is for Satan and his angels and those people not in the Lambs Book of Life.  I hope you are not living in America at that time.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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