makrothumia Posted March 31, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 11 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/31/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/16/1967 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I believe that Predestination and freewill can exist in the same equation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His_disciple3 Posted April 6, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 358 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2014 the one thing that the Calvinist have to over look to make scripture fit their doctrine of grace by predestination, is "BY HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE" He doesn't just randomly pick and choose who is in and who is out , but by His foreknowledge of Whosoever will !!!!! Predestination is just as much scripture as free will, or free will is just as much scripture as predestination is, if Paul taught doctrine of grace as the Calvinist says he did why would he say this: 2 Tim 2:10 10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. KJV according to some the elect are elected/predestined before time begin to be in. but Paul clearly says that the elect needs to obtain salvation also!!!!!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted April 6, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted April 6, 2014 The Fathers will is completely revealed in Jesus. Jesus destroyed the works of the devil every day of His life and that work didn't stop. Now, He uses His body.... us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted April 6, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,204 Content Per Day: 3.35 Reputation: 16,629 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2014 Yes, God does draw us all to Himself. We have the free will to resist His grace and to resist saving faith. The proud who try to enter by another gate still say I did it my way and end up in hell. The humble who will do not resist God's grace and call also receive the free gift of perservering trust in and reliance on Christ. God knows our response because He knows our hearts. He knows the end from the beginning because He is outside of time which He also created. I AM = He is-- always in the present tense. Always present and always existing. True--total depravity--all are born with the instinct of selfishness and sin due to the fall of Adam. No man has the capacity to receive Christ but by God's grace. True--unconditional election--we are saved purely by God's grace and not by any works or goodness. But the Bible clearly states that our election is according to God's foreknowledge. Everyone is headed for hell by default due to the fall of Adam. God foreknows the hearts of those who will humbly NOT resist His call, who will be given grace to repent, will be given saving perservering faith, and will be indwelt and sealed by His Spirit. 1 Peter 1:2 Heb. 3:14 , 2 Thess. 2:13-14 False--limited atonement--Jesus loved and died for the whole world. God our Savior Who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth 1 Tim. 2:4 John 3:16-17 God offers His grace to all. False--irresistable grace-- there are numerous verses stating that people did not believe due to their resisting the Holy Spirit and their hardening their hearts in unrepentance.. Mt. 23:37, Acts, 7:51 True--perserverance of the saints. ---God chose those whose hearts He foreknew would not resist His grace and gift of perservering faith. But there are also many admonitions in Scripture meant to help us toward the end of our keeping our faith strong, urging us: to be fervent in prayer, to study the scriptures, to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together, to be quick to repent and ask forgiveness should we sin, and to walk according to the Spirit. The elect are eager to do these things as well as to urge others to do them. We are Told to make our calling and election sure in 2 Peter 1:10 and to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Pet. 3:18 God works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Phil. 2:13 NKJV Sin does harden our hearts if unrepented, and many permanently fall away who continue in sin and unrepentance till the end, revealing that they are not among the elect. They loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. Many are called but few are chosen. John 17: 6, 9, 11, 14, 20, 23 There are goats among the sheep and sometimes only the Good Shepherd knows His own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted April 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted April 7, 2014 ..............He doesn't just randomly pick and choose who is in and who is out , but by His foreknowledge of Whosoever will !!!!! Predestination is just as much scripture as free will, or free will is just as much scripture as predestination is, if Paul taught doctrine of grace as the Calvinist says he did why would he say this: 2 Tim 2:10 10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may ALSO obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. KJV according to some the elect are elected/predestined before time begin to be in. but Paul clearly says...that the elect (Jews, the Circumcision) needs to obtain salvation also!!!!!. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 7, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 593 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 55,868 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,618 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 7, 2014 From another thread and I can't find it now If there is no free will, then God is not a Father, nor is He a Shepherd or a Husband or a King. If there is no free will, then all life is a puppet show, and God is a Puppet Master pulling on a string. I happen to agree with this post...... whoever it was that posted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted April 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,989 Topics Per Day: 0.49 Content Count: 48,687 Content Per Day: 11.89 Reputation: 30,342 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 7, 2014 Ok, now that we understand that predestination in the Bible refers to believers after salvation, now that we've come to knowledge of it, what about 'free will' vs. 'God being in control' vs. 'the Father drawing nonbelievers in to salvation' verses,scripture in Bible. What holds the most truth and has the most credit for having solid truth. If God is truly in control and the Father draws nonbelievers in, then Free will goes out the window. Any thoughts. - DRS81. The interplay between free will and God's sovereignty is like this. God gives you a commandment. You can either choose to obey or disobey. That is where free will ends. You can choose your response, but you can't choose the consequences you will face resulting from your response. God has already set those consequences in place and you will reap a blessing or a curse based on how you respond to God's commandments. I agree with this shiloh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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