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Predestination answered, Free will maybe .


Guest DRS81

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I believe that Predestination and freewill can exist in the same equation...

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the one thing that the Calvinist have to over look to make scripture fit their doctrine of grace by predestination, is "BY HIS FOREKNOWLEDGE" He doesn't just randomly pick and choose who is in and who is out , but by His foreknowledge of Whosoever will !!!!! Predestination is just as much scripture as free will, or free will is just as much scripture as predestination is, if Paul taught doctrine of grace as the Calvinist says he did why would he say this:

2 Tim 2:10
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
KJV

 

according to some the elect are elected/predestined before time begin to be in. but Paul clearly says that the elect needs to obtain salvation also!!!!!.

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:) The Fathers will is completely revealed in Jesus. Jesus destroyed the works of the devil every day of His life and that work didn't stop. Now, He uses His body....  us.

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Yes, God does draw us all to Himself. We have the free will to resist His grace and to resist saving faith.

The proud who try to enter by another gate still say I did it my way and end up in hell.

The humble who will do not resist God's grace and call also receive the free gift of perservering trust in and reliance on Christ. God knows our response because He knows our hearts. He knows the end from the beginning because He is outside of time which He also created. I AM = He is-- always in the present tense. Always present and always existing.

True--total depravity--all are born with the instinct of selfishness and sin due to the fall of Adam. No man has the capacity to receive Christ but by God's grace.

True--unconditional election--we are saved purely by God's grace and not by any works or goodness. But the Bible clearly states that our election is according to God's foreknowledge. Everyone is headed for hell by default due to the fall of Adam. God foreknows the hearts of those who will humbly NOT resist His call, who will be given grace to repent, will be given saving perservering faith, and will be indwelt and sealed by His Spirit. 1 Peter 1:2 Heb. 3:14 , 2 Thess. 2:13-14

False--limited atonement--Jesus loved and died for the whole world. God our Savior Who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth  1 Tim. 2:4 John 3:16-17 God offers His grace to all.

False--irresistable grace-- there are numerous verses stating that people did not believe due to their resisting the Holy Spirit and their hardening their hearts in unrepentance.. Mt. 23:37, Acts, 7:51

True--perserverance of the saints. ---God chose those whose hearts He foreknew would not resist His grace and gift of perservering faith. But there are also many admonitions in Scripture meant to help us toward the end of our keeping our faith strong, urging us: to be fervent in prayer, to study the scriptures, to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together, to be quick to repent and ask forgiveness should we sin, and to walk according to the Spirit. The elect are eager to do these things as well as to urge others to do them. We are Told to make our calling and election sure in 2 Peter 1:10 and to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Pet. 3:18 God works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Phil. 2:13 NKJV

Sin does harden our hearts if unrepented, and many permanently fall away who continue in sin and unrepentance till the end, revealing that they are not among the elect. They loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. Many are called but few are chosen. John 17: 6, 9, 11, 14, 20, 23 There are goats among the sheep and sometimes only the Good Shepherd knows His own.

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..............He doesn't just randomly pick and choose who is in and who is out , but by His foreknowledge of Whosoever will !!!!! Predestination is just as much scripture as free will, or free will is just as much scripture as predestination is, if Paul taught doctrine of grace as the Calvinist says he did why would he say this:

2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may ALSO obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

KJV

 

according to some the elect are elected/predestined before time begin to be in. but Paul clearly says...that the elect (Jews, the Circumcision) needs to obtain salvation also!!!!!.

 

 

I agree :thumbsup: 

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From another thread and I can't find it now

If there is no free will, then God is not a Father, nor is He a Shepherd or a Husband or a King.          If there is no free will, then all life is a puppet show, and God is a Puppet Master pulling on a string.

 

I happen to agree with this post......   whoever it was that posted it.

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Ok, now that we understand that predestination in the Bible refers to believers after salvation, now that we've come to knowledge of it, what about 'free will' vs. 'God being in control' vs. 'the Father drawing nonbelievers in to salvation' verses,scripture in Bible. What holds the most truth and has the most credit for having solid truth. If God is truly in control and the Father draws nonbelievers in, then Free will goes out the window. Any thoughts. - DRS81.

The interplay between free will and God's sovereignty is like this.   God gives you a commandment.  You can either choose to obey or disobey.  That is where free will ends.   You can choose your response, but you can't choose the consequences you will face resulting from your response.  God has already set those consequences in place and you will reap a blessing or a curse based on how you respond to God's commandments.

 

I agree with this shiloh.

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