Matt36 Posted May 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2014 Hi Matt 36 & Enoch2021, The only one who can `restrain,` is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself by His Holy Spirit. And why?- because He is building the Body of Christ. When He has brought that to maturity in Him (Eph 4: 13) then He will deal with Israel & the Nations. This is called the Day of the LORD. It is the time of God`s wrath upon the world administered by Christ, the Judge, as all judgment has been given into the Son`s hands by the Father. This is the Day that is talked about in 2 Thess. The 7 years encompasses the Day of the Lord till finally it culminates in the last day when the Lord Himself comes to have vengeance upon His enemies & deliverance for Israel. Hi Marilyn. Well i kind of think that its Micheal the arch angel but im open to other views except that its the holy spirit view. That one just doesnt make sense to me. It could well be the Lord himself, i really just dont know. As for the Day of the Lord, you are very correct that it is indeed his wrath. I think theres a distinction between wrath and tribulation however especially since no wrath of God is mentioned in revelation untill the 6th seal. So think its entirely possible that the events leading up to seal seven are just simple tribulation. Its would seem to me that the mystery of the church ends in rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. So that would mean the restrainer would leave after the rapture if Jesus was the restrainer, or the HS for that sake. Thats my understanding at this moment though, thanks for the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt36 Posted May 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 3, 2014 @Matt and Marilyn Can we test you views, why you think it Michael and why you think its the holy sprit? If its ok with you guys? Sure buddy. no problem. Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. This is the verse i believe where Michael who is a restrainer of sorts. Stops restraining and goes to do something im not sure what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted May 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted May 3, 2014 @Matt and Marilyn Can we test you views, why you think it Michael and why you think its the holy sprit? If its ok with you guys? Sure buddy. no problem. Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. This is the verse i believe where Michael who is a restrainer of sorts. Stops restraining and goes to do something im not sure what. ======================================================================================= You didn't Invite Me?? I'm Crushed!! So much for fair and balanced reporting. You are not Rightly Dividing the WORD and not paying attention to detail. Try not to let your "a priori" adherence's filter your Hermeneutics. There is ONLY "One" Archangel........Michael. The term Angel/Angels occur 294 Times in the Bible. The Only Time "archangel" is mentioned in the Entire Bible is here... (Jude 1:9) "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee." See that "the" right before "archangel" and right after Michael?? It's a BIGGIE!! So............. (1 Thessalonians 4:16) "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" Can you tell me how Michael is both "The Restrainer" for "The Church".....ON EARTH; AND From Heaven (With a Shout) from him, CONCURRENTLY with Christ coming to EARTH...for "The Church" ??? You're in Checkmate.....again. Lets continue (You accidentally forgot to bold the key part above there matt)..... (Daniel 12:1) "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." Michael (IN SCRIPTURE) is always a Military Commander/Warrior for Israel. "for the children of "Thy People". Who's People? Daniel's People = Israel "Time of Trouble". Who's Trouble? Jacobs Trouble = Israel. (Jeremiah 30:7) "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it." = Israel "The Restrainer" is the Holy Spirit.......it's quite simple: (2 Thessalonians 2:7-8) "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:" GOD ALONE Restrains Evil.....Period, End of Story. (SEE: Book of JOB for a clear demonstration of that very fact) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted May 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted May 3, 2014 =============================================================== Do you know the He is mesnt by pretribbers to be the holy spirit....do you know were this comes from? mesnt? I'm not a "Pre-Tribber".......... I'm a "Pre-70th Week of Daniel Rapture" It comes from the greek word neuter which is designated in verse 6.... neuter simply means spirit...thats it. Go ahead and show me... (2 Thessalonians 2:6) "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time." Think about this....it has taken brilliant theologians performing exegetical gymnastics to arrive at this explanation To me: Brilliant Theologians = Red Flags and Alarm Bells how on this green earth does Paul expect his Thessalonion freinds to arrive at the same explanantion? The Thessalonians were well aware of The Trinity and Holy Spirit.......See Acts 2. Therefore it must be rejected as Paul firstly doesnt even mention the Holy Spirit or even allude to it. Therefore, eh? "Therefore" presumes there was some concrete Support/Evidence immediately preceding it to Qualify it. So, "Therefore"....can you try this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted May 3, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,182 Content Per Day: 3.50 Reputation: 8,482 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted May 3, 2014 inchrist, thanks for asking. Paul says to the Thessalonians - `Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, .......that he (referring back to `exalts himself above...)` (2 Thess. 2: 5 & 6) So Paul has been talking to these believers about such things. We can read some of this in his first letter. However some people were getting afraid that the `Day of the Lord, ` the time of God`s wrath was already here. So Paul was reminding them about the `restrainer.` It can`t be the archangel Michael as he is Israel`s angel. (Dan. 12: 1) but it is Christ (by His Holy Spirit) for the Body of Christ. This verse is also helpful - `But the Lord is faithful, who will establish you and GUARD you from the evil one.` (2 Thess. 3: 3) So if the Lord, by His Holy Spirit is guarding the believers then the `evil one,` is restrained from bringing in his evil plans till the time when God will send a strong delusion. (2 Thess. 2:11) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjp34652 Posted May 5, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 156 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2014 2 Thessalonians 2: Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie Everyone seems to misunderstand this chapter. This is a really really obvious contrast between a revealing ... and the revealing being held back. The restrainer (the one who holds back) is a keeper of secrets, one who hides truth. He is holding back the revealing, he is evil, and stops truth being exposed. Some people think the restrainer is good, and is holding back evil....this is not true! Read carefully he is holding back the secret power from being revealed. Revelation 12 also talks of a sudden removal of an evil entity followed by a short period of deception and wrath: the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.11 They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short. The one who holds back the revealing of the antichrist is Satan/our accuser/the dragon of Revelation 12. When he is suddenly removed from heaven there will be great wrath and deception on earth for 3.5 years. Anyone who assumes that the Holy Spirit of God will be withdrawn at the end of the age, or any other time for that matter, is believing error. It simply will not and cannot happen. Consider the illogic of the assumption. Why would God, who has been intimately involved in the smallest detail of creation and human history, suddenly depart the world at the very moment when His right to participate in history is challenged? He would not. There's something else indicated in scripture. Some other restraint is withdrawn. The core of Biblical prophecy is Israel. Ancient Israel, Jesus' appearance to Israel, and Ezekiel's prediction that Israel would be recreated as a political and historic reality are all clearly assumed in Biblical text. The prophecies of the end times focus upon Israel. Final attacks of the enemy of all mankind and the righteousness of God all have their focus upon Israel - the restored Israel. And all those attacks have been restrained until the end.....until the restraint is removed. What protects modern Israel? Without getting too ethereal about the whole thing, the answer is obviously the strength and resolution of the nations of the west. I refer specifically to Europe and the United States. Since 1948, when Israel became a sovereign nation in the community of nations there has been an increasing degree of WITHERING of the culture, economy and military force of the west. In recent years we've even seen a tendency of European culture to return to anti-semitic attitudes we thought had died in the ashes of WWII. These attitudes are echoed to a lesser degree in America. They began as whispers, but they are growing. Consider also the actions and attitudes of POTUS Obama. No president prior to Obama has so eroded the American-Israeli relationship and has so consistently rejected and insulted the Israeli government. I submit the political and military restraint upon the enemies of Israel is eroding at an alarming rate. It isn't the Lord who's doing the sinning these days. It's us. It isn't the Lord that's abandoning one of the smallest of nations. It's us. It isn't God that abandons righteousness and good and life. It's us. It isn't divine restraint that's retreating in the face of evil. It's us. Theories that tend to lay guilt at the feet of the Most High instead of in the hand of man where they belong are, in my mind, partners with the devil itself. What happens when the restraint is gone? Questions as to whether we are in the End Times suddenly have an answer. and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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