"Sin Unto Death"

[kwikphilly]

Blessings chloe

    God  Bless you Sister,I do believe that Gods Word is referring to the Brethren& in agreement with Shiloh,this does not necessarily mean because we think of them as our brothers & Sisters in Christ that they actually are............I too believe we are talking about spiritual death and I do not see the sin unto death as a particular sin being worse than any other sin.......................This is not speaking of the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit,the unpardonable sin or it would have been said that way.......He is talking about the willful & deliberate act of sinning without remorse & an unrepentant heart,this is one who does not revere God or have any regard for the consequence of their actions,this cannot be a Christian eve if they claim to be one,.......Jesus said if we love Him we will obey His commandments.

                                                                                                                                                      With love-in Christ,Kwik

[chloe_fantastic]

Hey my sister Kwik,

 

Hugs, love ya! It very well could be as you and others have said. It totally fits if we look at it as they're not really brothers or sisters, just appear to be. If this is truly the case, then the death could really be spiritual death.

 

Thank you so much and everyone else too for trying to help me understand this verse.

 

Your sister in Christ, Chloe

[Donibm]

1 John 5:16

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

 

So what is the "sin unto death"?

 

This came up in Bible study tonight. Someone said that it was rejecting Jesus, based on the understanding that death in the verse refers to spiritual death.  I disagreed, reason being if this was so, then why are we told not to pray about it? If a brother or sister seemingly fell away, wouldn't that be something we should pray about? The only reason I can see to not pray about this is if the death being referred to is physical and prayers after this point are futile.

 

What say you?

 

A difficult passage to be sure.  I haven't studied it, so, I won't be one of the "overnight sensationalist" who love to respond to things that they have never truly known, or understood themselves.  But, here is my initial thoughts when I read it many years ago.

 

There are MORAL laws, which of couse, lead to damnation.  Such as lying, stealing, murder, sexual sin, socery (drug use), drunkeness, theft, etc.  All who do such things continously, and/or without repentance, will see damnation.  As such, "unto death".

 

Then there are also DIETARY and CEREMONIAL law, such as not eating certain foods or worshipping on certain days or feasts.  Such things have never sent, and never will send, anyone to Hellfire (thank God!!).  Hence, they are not unto death.

 

Then there is the passage about those who do things knowing they are wrong and will be beaten with many lashes, but those who do the same things, not knowing that its wrong, will be beaten with only a few lashes.

 

Again, I could be way off.  I'm only sharing my intial thoughts as i recall when I first read that nerely 20 years ago.  I've never studied it since. 

 

Matthew henry, who is not always right in all things, has this to say:

 

"There is a great distinction in the heinousness and guilt of sin: There is a sin unto death (v. 16), and there is a sin not unto death, v. 17. (1.) There is a sin unto death. All sin, as to the merit and legal sentence of it, is unto death. The wages of sin is death; and cursed is every one that continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them, Gal. 3:10. But there is a sin unto death in opposition to such sin as is here said not to be unto death. There is therefore, (2.) A sin not unto death. This surely must include all such sin as by divine or human constitution may consist with life; in the human constitution with temporal or corporal life, in the divine constitution with corporal or with spiritual evangelical life. [1.] There are sins which, by human righteous constitution, are not unto death; as divers pieces of injustice, which may be compensated without the death of the delinquent. In opposition to this there are sins which, by righteous constitution, are to death, or to a legal forfeiture of life; such as we call capital crimes. [2.] Then there are sins which, by divine constitution, are unto death; and that either death corporal or spiritual and evangelical. First, Such as are, or may be, to death corporal. Such may the sins be either of gross hypocrites, as Ananias and Sapphira, or, for aught we know, of sincere Christian brethren, as when the apostle says of the offending members of the church of Corinth, For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep, 1 Co. 11:30. There may be sin unto corporal death among those who may not be condemned with the world. Such sin, I said, is, or may be, to corporal death. The divine penal constitution in the gospel does not positively and peremptorily threaten death to the more visible sins of the members of Christ, but only some gospel-chastisement; for whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth, Heb. 12:6. There is room left for divine wisdom or goodness, or even gospel severity, to determine how far the chastisement or the scourge shall proceed. And we cannot say but that sometimes it may (in terrorem-for warning to others) proceed even to death. Then, Secondly, There are sins which, by divine constitution, are unto death spiritual and evangelical, that is, are inconsistent with spiritual and evangelical life, with spiritual life in the soul and with an evangelical right to life above. Such are total impenitence and unbelief for the present. Final impenitence and unbelief are infallibly to death eternal, as also a blaspheming of the Spirit of God in the testimony that he has given to Christ and his gospel, and a total apostasy from the light and convictive evidence of the truth of the Christian religion. These are sins involving the guilt of everlasting death"

[Mswright6488]

YES! it is rejecting Gods own son that leads us to death. When we have Jesus... we have the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE

[dreams-n-stars]

I beg to differ.

Most people brush this question off with a quick "Jesus died for us, so we can really do whatever we want, as long as we belie-eve, ask for forgiveness and give some more of our money to the church." The bible (and therefore God as well) disagrees.

Hebrews 10:26-29 says: "For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

I do think that "knowledge of the truth" is a key-element in this text though, and not everyone who says that they are a Christian has come to that state (2Tim.3:7). When you become a Christian, you are born again and you no longer live for yourself. The highest commandment is to love God with all your heart and soul, and to love God is to keep His commandments, and they are not grievous (1John5:3).

To sin deliberately is an act of defiance against God, and "not being perfect" is a very poor excuse. But God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it (1Cor. 10:13). To sin on purpose, knowing that God doesn't want you to do a thing, is indeed spitting on Jesus' cross and counting His blood unholy.

[Guest]

Verily

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

 

Verily

 

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

 

Verily

 

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

 

~

 

....Most people brush this question off with a quick "Jesus died for us, so....

 

 

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren,

 

see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

 

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Peter 1:21-23

[Salty]

1 John 5:16

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

 

So what is the "sin unto death"?

 

This came up in Bible study tonight. Someone said that it was rejecting Jesus, based on the understanding that death in the verse refers to spiritual death.  I disagreed, reason being if this was so, then why are we told not to pray about it? If a brother or sister seemingly fell away, wouldn't that be something we should pray about? The only reason I can see to not pray about this is if the death being referred to is physical and prayers after this point are futile.

 

What say you?

 

Apostle John is referring to judgments that accompany certain sins, like murder and the death penalty. For example, though manslaughter where two men get into a bar fight and one dies by accident, it is still considered a degree of murder in the court systems, it does not usually carry the death penalty. Thus it is not a sin unto death, likewise with thefts, perjury, etc. You are very correct then, that if a sin is unto death (brings with it the death penalty), then it is too late to pray for a reversal of the one found guilty. We can only pray to God to have mercy upon that soul subject to the death sentence when he appears before The LORD in final judgment.

 

I know the liberal minds out there won't agree with this, because some think the death penalty should not exist at all, but that is to go against what our Heavenly Father has ordained for this world.

[dreams-n-stars]

Verily

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

 

Verily

 

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

 

Verily

 

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

 

~

 

 

 

This does not disagree with what I said.

 

....Most people brush this question off with a quick "Jesus died for us, so....

 

 

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren,

 

see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

 

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Peter 1:21-23

 

 

And here you make my point all the clearer. "Ye have purefied your souls in obeying the truth." and "born again, not of corruptible seed, ... [but] by the word of God." If you sin deliberately, you go straight against this. Jesus said: "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" (John 8:31) and the author of Hebrews: "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).

[Guest]

Obey Him

 

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. John 15:12

 

~

 

And here you make my point all the clearer. "Ye have purefied your souls in obeying the truth." and "born again, not of corruptible seed, ... [but] by the word of God." If you sin deliberately, you go straight against this.

 

Jesus said: "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" (John 8:31) and the author of Hebrews: "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).

 

 

Pointing

 

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

 

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:7-10

 

Straight To Jesus

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

 

Don't Ride That Prideful Self

 

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

 

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

 

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:23-28

 

Straight Down Into Perdition, Beloved

 

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

[dreams-n-stars]

Obey Him

 

This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. John 15:12

 

 

Yes. And two verses further: "Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you." By accepting Jesus as Lord, your entire past is forgiven, and all the ignorant sins to come. Is it not enough that he was so gracious and merciful to do this for us? By deliberately sinning, you prove that you don't love God and you spit on Jesus's cross.

 

All the quotes you gave have to fit in will the rest of the Bible. Just believing that Jesus is Lord is not enough ("the devils also believe and they tremble" - James 2:19), believing on Jesus is followed by the fruit thereof: "either make the tree good and his fruit good or else make the tree corrupt and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by its fruit". And to think that wilful sin is okay, makes you no different to people that don't proclaim themselves to be Christians.

 

Also: "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. He that committeth sin is of the devil; Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1John 3:6,8-9), "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1John 2:4) and "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1John 5:18).