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Spock

A different end times scenario to discuss

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I just want to throw this out for us to civilly discuss. I'm not saying this is what I believe yet, but it is something I'm leaning toward, considering, weighing, and researching. Your thoughts will be welcomed of course.

So here goes. I will start with a timeline and then add to it as the thread progresses:

1. The "Thief in the Night Rapture" or the First Fruits Rapture/harvest of the FAITHFUL CHURCH ONLY (think promise to the Church of Philadelphia) -because these believers are watchful, alert, and living for God, not for self or the world, they will be kept from the hour of testing. These are the people who take Luke 21:36 seriously: "Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man." (I believe ALL these things means all - the entire 70th week, which includes the frightful Seals too.)

-these people are special and they only are taken to the wedding supper.(not for entire church)

 

A type: With Enoch, God has given us a picture of the future Rapture of the Worthy.  And who is to be raptured in the first calling?  Those who have been "walking with God".


I now think there is a distinction that will be made among believers and that we are not all alike and will not all be treated equally. I can show you many scripture verses to support this if needed. (Many thanks to Rolling Thunder and his book who turned me on to this way of thinking.)

2. The 70th week of Daniel begins (Daniel 9:24 ff)

3. The first five seals of revelation 6 are opened, and basically, the seals make up the first 3.5 years, up to midpoint (rev 6:1-11)
-during this time, the "lukewarm left behind believers" are being tested and persecuted, with many also dying. The antichrist has moved into power by solving problems, like the Mideast problem and perhaps explaining the rapture of the faithful saints away. The antichrist is opposed to any voice opposed to him, mostly left behind Christians and rallies public opinion against this people group. The Ezekiel 38/39 war occurs in this time period too.

4. Right at the end of this 3.5 years, seal 6 is opened which will shortly enter in the Day of The Lord. Massive earthquake, nuclear bomb, etc occur. (Rev 6:12-17)

5. A second rapture, "The Power and Glory Rapture" where everyone will see Christ coming in the clouds  (the main, general harvest of the church) occurs here- the vast majority of the Church will now come out before God unleashes his wrath on all of mankind. These believers had to be tested, purged, and purified before experiencing the rapture. (see rev 7:9 and Matt 24:29-31 to see this rapture). These trib saints were not invited to the wedding supper because they were not prepared and ready. That was only for the first Raptured saints.

-the sealing of the 144,000 Jewish remnant (rev 7:1-8) here also.

6. The abomination of desolation probably occurs shortly after the 2nd rapture, at the midpoint in the week.

7. The day of The Lord begins which make up the trumpet and bowl judgments. (Rev 8- rev 19) This is the time of Jacobs trouble, which is basically meant to refine and purge the Jews for unfaithfulness. The Church is now out, but obviously, there will be many Gentiles who will subsequently believe and not take the mark of the beast.

8. The return of Jesus (rev 19) and obviously Jesus wins quickly.
- I am not going into detail about the day of The Lord because I think many of us know all about the trumpets and bowls.

9. The millennium reign of Christ begins.
-sheep and goats judgment is first up.
-if a rapture is not considered a resurrection, then the first resurrection comes here too.

10. Thousand years are up, satan loosed, defeated again, and sent to the abyss.

You should know the rest. The kingdom of God begins.

Looking back at what I just wrote, it basically looks like the first half of Daniels 70th week is a time of testing for lukewarm Christians, and the second half of the week is a time to test gods chosen people, the Jews.

Obviously, the most controversial item is the two raptures. Is that in scripture? Well, maybe it helps to see them like this: in Bible times the harvest was conducted in three stages. It began with the "first fruits"harvest, followed by the "general" harvest, and the leftovers was called the "gleanings" which was gathered by the poor and the needy.

First fruits harvest = the first harvest offered to God, the rapture of the faithful (small minority)
General harvest=the many other believers who were left behind and not faithful enough (large majority)
Gleanings= the leftovers at the sheep and goat judgment perhaps?

So what do you think? I'm all ears and welcome any and all feedback. Like I previously said, I'm not putting this out to be dogmatic, but to just share some musings I am having as I research bible prophecy.

Thanks for listening.

Spock covering his eyes

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Perfect! That is my take on it!

Wow, what a first post for feedback. I'm beet red in both grateful ness and astonishment. Thank you.

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I just want to throw this out for us to civilly discuss. I'm not saying this is what I believe, but it is something I'm considering, weighing, and researching. Your thoughts will be welcomed of course.

So here goes. I will start with a timeline and then add to it as the thread progresses:

1. Rapture of the FAITHFUL CHURCH-those watching, alert, and living for Him (rev 4:1)

-these people are immediately ushered into the wedding supper. (I believe all who have believed on Him are raptured for the wedding feast as He died for all of our sins)

2. The 70th week of Daniel begins

3. The first five seals of revelation 6 are opened, and basically, the seals make up the first 3.5 years, up to midpoint (rev 6:1-11)

-during this time, the "lukewarm left behind believers" are being tested and persecuted, with many also dying. The antichrist has moved into power by solving problems, like the Mideast problem and perhaps explaining the rapture of the faithful saints away. The antichrist is opposed to any voice opposed to him, mostly left behind Christians and rallies public opinion against this people group. The Ezekiel 38/39 war occurs in this time period too. (No lukewarm or left behind Christians, but there are new believers who accepted Jesus since the Rapture)

4. Right at the end of this 3.5 years, seal 6 is about to be opened which will enter in the Day of The Lord. Massive earthquake, nuclear bomb, etc occur. (Rev 6:12-17)

5. A second rapture occurs - the tribulation saints who were tested and are still alive (rev 7:9 on). These trib saints were not invited to the wedding supper because they were not prepared and ready. That was only for the first Raptured saints.

-the sealing of the 144,000 Jewish remnant (rev 7:1-8)    (No second rapture)

6. The abomination of desolation probably occurs here, at this midpoint.

7. The day of The Lord begins which make up the trumpet and bowl judgments. (Rev 8- rev 19) This is the time of Jacobs trouble, which is basically meant to refine and purge the Jews for unfaithfulness. The Church is now out, but obviously, there will be many Gentiles who will subsequently believe and not take the mark of the beast. (While Jacob is judged, those who survive to the end will be saved. Most Jews will not take the mark).

8. The return of Jesus (rev 19) and obviously Jesus wins quickly.

- I am not going into detail about the day of The Lord because I think many of us know all about the trumpets and bowls. (All Jewish people who are still alive to see Jesus return and triumph will recognize Him as Messiah and Lord).

9. The millennium reign of Christ begins.

-sheep and goats judgment is first up.

-if a rapture is not considered a resurrection, then the first resurrection comes here too.

10. Thousand years are up, satan loosed, defeated again, and sent to the abyss.

You should know the rest. The kingdom of God begins.

So what do you think? I'm all ears and welcome any and all feedback. Like I previously said, I'm not putting this out to be dogmatic, but to just share some musings I am having as I research bible prophecy.

Thanks for listening.

Spock covering his eyes

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So you are claiming that there are two raptures. But you have also said in the same paragraph that there is no second rapture. Am I right?

Also when exactly is the Ezekiel Gog, Magog war? You're claiming that it occurs sometime during the first 3.5 years but surely it would have to occur at the beginning of the first 3.5 years because when it finishes the Israeli's use weapons for fuel for seven years which would take them into the millennium reign. Or am I not understanding this correctly?

You have also put the sealing of the Jewish remnant before the abomination of desolation which doesn't make sense - or am I reading this wrong?

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So you are claiming that there are two raptures. But you have also said in the same paragraph that there is no second rapture. Am I right?

Also when exactly is the Ezekiel Gog, Magog war? You're claiming that it occurs sometime during the first 3.5 years but surely it would have to occur at the beginning of the first 3.5 years because when it finishes the Israeli's use weapons for fuel for seven years which would take them into the millennium reign. Or am I not understanding this correctly?

You have also put the sealing of the Jewish remnant before the abomination of desolation which doesn't make sense - or am I reading this wrong?

I wasn't the one who said "no second rapture". All comments made at the end in parenthesis were made by Qnts2 as a rebuttal to my points.

As far as the timing of the abomination, since revelation doesn't seem to mention this, I assume it will be just before the commencement of the day of The Lord, which I think begins around late rev 6 to Rev 8. So, since the sealing of the 144,000 takes place in chapter 7, this seems to fit. I would imagine the sealing comes before the actual Day of The Lord commences.

As for the seven years of burying the weapons, If the Ezekiel war is in the beginning of the week, basically it will take the entire week to bury the weapons. If there is a slight overflow into the millennium no big deal in my eyes.

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I just want to throw this out for us to civilly discuss. I'm not saying this is what I believe, but it is something I'm considering, weighing, and researching. Your thoughts will be welcomed of course.

So here goes. I will start with a timeline and then add to it as the thread progresses:

1. Rapture of the FAITHFUL CHURCH-those watching, alert, and living for Him (rev 4:1)

-these people are immediately ushered into the wedding supper.

2. The 70th week of Daniel begins

3. The first five seals of revelation 6 are opened, and basically, the seals make up the first 3.5 years, up to midpoint (rev 6:1-11)

-during this time, the "lukewarm left behind believers" are being tested and persecuted, with many also dying. The antichrist has moved into power by solving problems, like the Mideast problem and perhaps explaining the rapture of the faithful saints away. The antichrist is opposed to any voice opposed to him, mostly left behind Christians and rallies public opinion against this people group. The Ezekiel 38/39 war occurs in this time period too.

4. Right at the end of this 3.5 years, seal 6 is about to be opened which will enter in the Day of The Lord. Massive earthquake, nuclear bomb, etc occur. (Rev 6:12-17)

5. A second rapture occurs - the tribulation saints who were tested and are still alive (rev 7:9 on). These trib saints were not invited to the wedding supper because they were not prepared and ready. That was only for the first Raptured saints.

-the sealing of the 144,000 Jewish remnant (rev 7:1-8)

6. The abomination of desolation probably occurs here, at this midpoint.

7. The day of The Lord begins which make up the trumpet and bowl judgments. (Rev 8- rev 19) This is the time of Jacobs trouble, which is basically meant to refine and purge the Jews for unfaithfulness. The Church is now out, but obviously, there will be many Gentiles who will subsequently believe and not take the mark of the beast.

8. The return of Jesus (rev 19) and obviously Jesus wins quickly.

- I am not going into detail about the day of The Lord because I think many of us know all about the trumpets and bowls.

9. The millennium reign of Christ begins.

-sheep and goats judgment is first up.

-if a rapture is not considered a resurrection, then the first resurrection comes here too.

10. Thousand years are up, satan loosed, defeated again, and sent to the abyss.

You should know the rest. The kingdom of God begins.

So what do you think? I'm all ears and welcome any and all feedback. Like I previously said, I'm not putting this out to be dogmatic, but to just share some musings I am having as I research bible prophecy.

Thanks for listening.

Spock covering his eyes

 

 

================================================================

 

 

Spock covering his eyes

 

That is too funny Spock.  Congrats on your intestinal fortitude to put it out there.....lets send it through the Crucible :)

 

Rapture of the FAITHFUL CHURCH-those watching, alert, and living for Him (rev 4:1)

 

-these people are immediately ushered into the wedding supper.

 

1st statement :thumbsup:

 

2nd Statement.  Hmmm....just quibbling I guess;  I think "The Church" may be represented by the 24 Elders.  We can discuss this....there are some clues.

 

 

The 70th week of Daniel begins

 

With the confirmation of the Covenant....

 

(Daniel 9:27) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

 

The first five seals of revelation 6 are opened, and basically, the seals make up the first 3.5 years, up to midpoint (rev 6:1-11)

-during this time, the "lukewarm left behind believers" are being tested and persecuted, with many also dying. The antichrist has moved into power by solving problems, like the Mideast problem and perhaps explaining the rapture of the faithful saints away.

 

1st Statement:  So you're saying the First 5 Seals are the first 1/2 of Daniels 70th week and the 6th Seal starts the GREAT TRIBULATION/Abomination of Desolation?  It's possible but I think "I'm leaning, Tentatively" to The breaking of the First Seal beginning "Officially" GOD'S Wrath.

 

However, you may have a point.... (Revelation 13:6) "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven."

 

This IMHO speaks to the Abomination of Desolation....................................................... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:  ....................................................................... :rolleyes:

 

Remember from the outline of the Book (Hope you seen it)....

 

With the Seven Seals: there is a "Parenthesis" between the 6th and the 7th Seal......"Chapter 7".  The 7th Seal starts in Chapter 8.

With the 7 Trumpets: There is a "Parenthesis" between the 6th and 7thTrumpet....."Chapter 10-14" (The Seventh Angel sounds in Rev 11:15 but the vials/bowl Judgements don't start until Chapter 15)

 

So technically, Rev 13:6 (above) is after the 7th Trumpet and before the 1st Vial/Bowl.   You may be close here SPOCK  :thumbsup: I may need to re-evaluate my position :)

 

 

2nd Statement: There are no "Lukewarm believers" that's an Oxymoron..... it's like being "a little" Pregnant.  Some will become the Tribulation Saints and it will cost them their lives.  You will not be able to buy or sell anything without "the mark".  Take "the mark" and you forfeit irrevocably any chance of being SAVED.

 

 

The Ezekiel 38/39 war occurs in this time period too.

 

I can't comment here....not enough study.   Gimme a Break!!  :)

 

 

 

Right at the end of this 3.5 years, seal 6 is about to be opened which will enter in the Day of The Lord. Massive earthquake, nuclear bomb, etc occur. (Rev 6:12-17)

 

Don't know about that:

 

The Sixth Seal:  Great Earthquake, Sun Black, Moon Blood, Stars (Idiom for Angels) but may be meteors, **Heaven departed as a Scroll** Uh OH, every mountain an Island moved out of their places, Kings/Chief Captains/Mighty Men et al......(Revelation 6:16) "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"  SEE: Joshua and Battle of Jericho, they said the same thing.

 

See above verse for Abomination of Desolation or kickoff of THE GREAT TRIBULATION

 

A second rapture occurs - the tribulation saints who were tested and are still alive (rev 7:9 on).

 

No "second" Rapture Spock.  All the Tribulation Saints will be KILLED....they won't take the mark  :thumbsup:

 

 

The day of The Lord begins which make up the trumpet and bowl judgments.

 

IMHO, "The Day of the LORD" is the Whole 3 1/2 Years.  "The Day of Vengeance" is.......(Revelation 19:15) "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

 

See Also:  Isaiah 63:1-6

 

I could be wrong here, however.  It's difficult to know what is the "Day", "Hour", or if it's referencing the Whole 3 1/2 years.

 

 

The millennium reign of Christ begins.

 

Who populates the Millennium?

 

You have:  OT Saints, The Sheep, The Martyrs, Tribulation Saints, The Church, The 144,000 Sealed, Jewish Remnant.

 

(Revelation 20:4-5) "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.  {5} But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

 

 

Overall, very good Spock....... and has led to more questions  :)  That I will be studying Henceforth.   Thanks  :thumbsup:  

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So you are claiming that there are two raptures. But you have also said in the same paragraph that there is no second rapture. Am I right?

Also when exactly is the Ezekiel Gog, Magog war? You're claiming that it occurs sometime during the first 3.5 years but surely it would have to occur at the beginning of the first 3.5 years because when it finishes the Israeli's use weapons for fuel for seven years which would take them into the millennium reign. Or am I not understanding this correctly?

You have also put the sealing of the Jewish remnant before the abomination of desolation which doesn't make sense - or am I reading this wrong?

I wasn't the one who said "no second rapture". All comments made at the end in parenthesis were made by Qnts2 as a rebuttal to my points.

As far as the timing of the abomination, since revelation doesn't seem to mention this, I assume it will be just before the commencement of the day of The Lord, which I think begins around late rev 6 to Rev 8. So, since the sealing of the 144,000 takes place in chapter 7, this seems to fit. I would imagine the sealing comes before the actual Day of The Lord commences.

As for the seven years of burying the weapons, If the Ezekiel war is in the beginning of the week, basically it will take the entire week to bury the weapons. If there is a slight overflow into the millennium no big deal in my eyes.

 

 

Ok fair enough. I'll have to think about this. The rapture has never been my strong point.

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I am reading this over very well.I have to do more research and reading scripture to give my answers.

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This one scripture below when brought to my attention really opened my eyes to a partial rapture possibility. It then snowballed after that, and then I noticed 20 others. From Luke 12

35“Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, 36like servants waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the middle of the night or toward daybreak. 39But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

41Peter asked, “Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?”

42The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

Spock's musings: it seems clear to me that the value in being ready, watching, and obeying is you get to be invited to the wedding supper. Notice the words Jesus uses in verse 37. Love it.

And for those who don't heed the admonition to be ready, they get to be thrown into tribulation- see verse 46. He will be hanging out with the UNBELIEVERS during this time.

Again, look at the admonition Jesus gives to the 7 churches in rev 2-3 (emphasis on the word CHURCH)

1. Philadelphia-I will keep you from the hour that is about to come upon the whole earth

Vs.

2. Laodicea-So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

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