Will there be a second chance for salvation after the rapture?

[Marilyn C]

Hi Salty,

 

I noticed you didn`t really answer the `spiritual bodies,` point I made.

 

And as regards to those scriptures concerning the resurrection of the dead. God`s word tells us & when those events shall happen. We seem to disagree on the `when.`

[Salty]

Hi Salty,

 

I noticed you didn`t really answer the `spiritual bodies,` point I made.

 

And as regards to those scriptures concerning the resurrection of the dead. God`s word tells us & when those events shall happen. We seem to disagree on the `when.`

 

I've given a mountain of Scripture evidence on my posts here about the coming resurrection on the day of Christ's return, and with what kind of body it is per Apostle Paul. If you didn't understand that, then you won't understand me explaining it again. Our discussion has not been about the timing of Christ's second coming, but you can read several of my other posts because I speak about the timing a lot in my writings.

 

Furthermore, the only question you have asked me in the several past posts was about the consuming fire event of Rev.20:9, to which I gave answer to.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Salty

[Marilyn C]

And Salty, what kind of spiritual body are you talking about that the resurrected unrighteous have?

[Salty]

And Salty, what kind of spiritual body are you talking about that the resurrected unrighteous have?

 

You didn't read my post above, #128, for I covered that point.

[Marilyn C]

I did read that post of yours Salty, that is why I asked you about the `spiritual body.` As I`ve said before only the believers are given a spiritual body. That is because we are `like Christ,` but obviously those who have not been changed will definitely not have a spiritual body. Note the only spiritual body available, if I can say it like that, is like Christ`s body.

[Salty]

I did read that post of yours Salty, that is why I asked you about the `spiritual body.` As I`ve said before only the believers are given a spiritual body. That is because we are `like Christ,` but obviously those who have not been changed will definitely not have a spiritual body. Note the only spiritual body available, if I can say it like that, is like Christ`s body.

 

If you had really 'read' that post, you would have noticed this:

 

"No, all alive on earth will be changed to the "spiritual body" type, the just and the unjust, like Paul showed pulling from Isa.25. And it's specifically the spiritual type body that is subject to the "second death" in the "lake of fire", not one's flesh body."

[Salty]

I did read that post of yours Salty, that is why I asked you about the `spiritual body.` As I`ve said before only the believers are given a spiritual body. That is because we are `like Christ,` but obviously those who have not been changed will definitely not have a spiritual body. Note the only spiritual body available, if I can say it like that, is like Christ`s body.

 

As for questions, you never gave answer to my following questions from post #124 about the John 5:28-29 Scripture:

 

1. What is the timing of those two verses?

2. Are only the 'just' resurrected at that timing per that Scripture?

 

3. Since Jesus showed by that how the "resurrection of life" AND... the "resurrection of damnation" both occur on that day, how can the "dead" of Rev.20:5 still be in graves waiting to be resurrected at the end of the thousand years of Rev.20?

[Marilyn C]

Hi again Salty,

 

I did read your post that is why we are having this discussion of a `spiritual body.` God never promised or will give the unjust a `spiritual body.` They are just resurrected as `spirits,` but without a `body.` I`m not referring to a natural body but a `spiritual body,` that is the inheritance of believers.

 

You said -

 

`No, all alive on earth will be changed to the `spiritual body type,` the just & the unjust.`

 

There is no scripture to support that.

 

Now concerning your other questions.

 

1. What is the timing of John 5: 28 & 29.

 

`Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice (the judgment of the son of Man) & come forth - those who have DONE GOOD, to the resurrection of life, & those who have DONE EVIL, to the resurrection of condemnation.` 

 

Here we see, Salty, the requirement for those people to have a resurrection to life - DONE GOOD. Is this your basis of your salvation? I think not. This was the requirement prior to Christ`s death, resurrection......This requirement was for Israel & those who obeyed their conscience.

 

The Body of Christ is not under Christ`s judgment but we are His Body & we are destined to be adopted as sons. (Oh glorious hope)

 

 

2. Are only the just resurrected at that time? No. Both just (pre-cross) & unjust are resurrected at the same time, at the Great White Throne of the judgment of God - Christ -

 

`For ...the Father has given Him (the Son) authority to execute judgment also....` (John 5: 27)

 

 

3. The Resurrection of Life & the Resurrection of Condemnation.

 

These both happen as scripture tells us at the great White Throne together.

 

`Then I saw a great white throne & Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth & the heaven fled away. And there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, small & great, standing before God, & books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged according to THEIR WORKS, by the things which were written in the books. ........And they were judged, each one according to HIS WORKS.`  (Rev. 20: 11 - 15)

 

However you asked, `how can the `dead,` of rev. 20: 5 still be in graves waiting to be resurrected at the end of the 1,000 years of Rev. 20.`

 

`And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus......And they lived & reigned with Christ for a 1,000 years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the 1,000 years were finished.`  (Rev. 20: 4 & 5)

 

All that is quite self explanatory, Salty.

 

1. After the Tribulation those beheaded etc came to life & ruled with Christ a 1,000 years.  (Rev. 20: 4)

2. The rest of the dead from the tribulation did not live again till the end of the 1,000 years   (Rev. 20: 5)

3. where they joined the rest of humanity (pre-cross) & all will be judged on THEIR WORKS. (Rev. 20: 11 - 15)

 

 

What I can gather from your posts is that you have been trying to fit everyone into the same time being resurrected, whereas Christ tells us it is those whose WORKS are being judged. That is the criteria.

 

I hope that clears up the matter for you, Salty. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Salty]

Hi again Salty,

 

I did read your post that is why we are having this discussion of a `spiritual body.` God never promised or will give the unjust a `spiritual body.` They are just resurrected as `spirits,` but without a `body.` I`m not referring to a natural body but a `spiritual body,` that is the inheritance of believers.

 

So those of the "synagogue of Satan" per Christ in Rev.3:9 will come to bow and worship at the feet of Christ's elect as 'spirits' with no body image?

You haven't yet understood what kind of body the "spiritual body" of Paul is. The "spiritual body" is simply the body IMAGE of the heavenly dimension. It's what the angels have also, which is why Jesus said those of the resurrection are "as the angels in heaven" (Mark 12:25). So whenever God's Word is speaking about the 'resurrection' of either the just or the unjust, it is about the resurrection to the spiritual body heavenly image. Having the "spiritual body" does not mean automatic Salvation through Christ Jesus.

 

Paul explained 2 different changes that are required for Christ's Salvation of the world to come, and they are four separate Greek terms (1 Cor.15:53). The resurrection of damnation is only about the first change, a change of body type only.

 

You said -

 

`No, all alive on earth will be changed to the `spiritual body type,` the just & the unjust.`

There is no scripture to support that.

 

You mean there's no Scripture that you know of, that supports that. You obviously haven't understood the Isaiah 25 chapter where Apostle Paul was pulling from about the change, where he quoted about death being swallowed up.

 

Now concerning your other questions.

1. What is the timing of John 5: 28 & 29.

 

`Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice (the judgment of the son of Man) & come forth - those who have DONE GOOD, to the resurrection of life, & those who have DONE EVIL, to the resurrection of condemnation.`

 

Here we see, Salty, the requirement for those people to have a resurrection to life - DONE GOOD. Is this your basis of your salvation? I think not. This was the requirement prior to Christ`s death, resurrection......This requirement was for Israel & those who obeyed their conscience.

 

The Body of Christ is not under Christ`s judgment but we are His Body & we are destined to be adopted as sons. (Oh glorious hope)

 

You still failed to answer the question. That first question is not about the types of resurrection, but about what timing those John 5:28-29 verses are for, regardless of who you believe those verses are about.

 

2. Are only the just resurrected at that time? No. Both just (pre-cross) & unjust are resurrected at the same time, at the Great White Throne of the judgment of God - Christ -

 

`For ...the Father has given Him (the Son) authority to execute judgment also....` (John 5: 27)

 

The Great White Throne Judgment is at the end of Christ's thousand years reign. If the Just are not resurrected until then, that would mean there is no such thing as the 1st resurrection of Christ's elect which reign with Him during... the thousand years, for they are even called The Just in Ezek.44 (the Zadok, which means 'The Just').

 

Both resurrection 'types' occur on the same day of Christ's second coming, both the Just ("resurrection of life") and.... the unjust ("resurrection of damnation"). That's what Christ Jesus has declared per that John 5:28-29 Scripture.

 

 

3. The Resurrection of Life & the Resurrection of Condemnation.

 

These both happen as scripture tells us at the great White Throne together.

 

`Then I saw a great white throne & Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth & the heaven fled away. And there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, small & great, standing before God, & books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged according to THEIR WORKS, by the things which were written in the books. ........And they were judged, each one according to HIS WORKS.`  (Rev. 20: 11 - 15)

 

Then per your view, you reject the many NT Scriptures about the resurrection and gathering by Christ Jesus of His elect at His second coming, and also their reign with Him during the thousand years. Again, that would mean the 1st resurrection that reigns with Him throughout the thousand years is a myth per your view.

 

 

However you asked, `how can the `dead,` of rev. 20: 5 still be in graves waiting to be resurrected at the end of the 1,000 years of Rev. 20.`

 

`And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus......And they lived & reigned with Christ for a 1,000 years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the 1,000 years were finished.`  (Rev. 20: 4 & 5)

 

All that is quite self explanatory, Salty.

 

1. After the Tribulation those beheaded etc came to life & ruled with Christ a 1,000 years.  (Rev. 20: 4)

2. The rest of the dead from the tribulation did not live again till the end of the 1,000 years   (Rev. 20: 5)

3. where they joined the rest of humanity (pre-cross) & all will be judged on THEIR WORKS. (Rev. 20: 11 - 15)

 

And you say I'm the one that has all this 'muddled'??? You just said above that the just aren't raised until the day of the Great White Throne Judgment that only happens AFTER Christ's thousand years reign. So where do these beheaded during the tribulation get resurrected, for they are the Just that reign with Christ? The Just will not appear at the Great White Throne Judgment at all, for they raised at Christ's second coming, and are that "resurrection of life" at His coming, which is what the subject of 1 Thess.4 and 1 Cor.15 is about.

 

 

What I can gather from your posts is that you have been trying to fit everyone into the same time being resurrected, whereas Christ tells us it is those whose WORKS are being judged. That is the criteria.

 

I hope that clears up the matter for you, Salty.

You're wrong. I've haven't been trying to fit anyone into anything. Christ Himself declared when the Just and the unjust will be raised, at His coming, but you reject what He said there in John 5:28-29 and its timing given in those verses, i.e., at His coming at the raising of the dead which is the resurrection. It's common sense that the phrase "resurrection of damnation" never means Christ's Salvation unto eternal Life, yet it is still... a resurrection, and that per our Lord Jesus Christ, not me.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Salty,

 

Yes we certainly disagree on these points.

 

I don`t see in God`s word that the just get resurrected & go into the Millennium, only those who God says were beheaded  (for God`s word) during the tribulation.

 

The gathering of the `elect,` (in Matt. 24: 25) is the scattered remanent of Israel after the Tribulation, as Isaiah also tells us. (Isa. 66: 18 - 21)

 

Also the unjust do not get bodies like angels. How can the unjust be given `clothing` from heaven, that is only for the believers. The unjust will be `naked,` not have a natural or a spiritual body. This is their great torment, as they will be alone forever, not able to have a body to appreciate all that God has for us - community, sharing, work, rulership, responsibility, spiritual food, etc, etc. 

 

`For  indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven; inasmuch as we, having put it on, shall not be found naked.`   (2 Cor. 5: 1 - 10)