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Montana Marv

Post Tribbers - Please explain

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As per Rev 14:6,7 - Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth; to every nation, tribe, language and people.  He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come.  Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."

 

v 9 - A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice; "If anyone worships the beast, and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he too will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath", v 12 - This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

 

And then Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands, they did not stop worshiping demons and idols..........

 

So where do you Post Tribbers fit in to all this.  For this is all happening near the onset of the 70th Week, except for Rev 9:20. The Church spreading the gospel is now dispelled by an angel spreading the gospel.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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Montana Marv...... Love where your minds at   :thumbsup:   Very Insightful.....gotta Love the Simplicity.

 

 

So your Thesis is:  If "The Church" who's Mission is to proclaim the Gospel to the World is still on the Earth during The Great Tribulation, then why the need for the Angel to proclaim it "to those who live on the Earth" in Rev 14?

 

Any takers??

 

 

Then after that:

 

How does the "Bride"----------> "The Church" (Born Again Christians), FOLLOW Christ in HIS SECOND COMING (See Rev 19) after the Marriage Supper if they're still on the Earth waiting to be "Raptured" ??

 

 

The WORD is a Two-Edged Sword.  Nothing can stand up to it, save............................THE TRUTH!!

 

 

Praise The LORD!!

 

 

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I guess they say the wedding supper is later, not before the 2nd coming. I've never really read their thoughts on this. I'm sure Argosy or The other Enoch have an explanation.

This up and back thing seems sorta corny too, don't you think? I mean would Jesus call us up just to ask us to follow him back down? Maybe not.

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I guess they say the wedding supper is later, not before the 2nd coming. I've never really read their thoughts on this. I'm sure Argosy or The other Enoch have an explanation.

This up and back thing seems sorta corny too, don't you think? I mean would Jesus call us up just to ask us to follow him back down? Maybe not.

 

=========================================================================

 

 

 

I guess they say the wedding supper is later, not before the 2nd coming.  I've never really read their thoughts on this. I'm sure Argosy or The other Enoch have an explanation.

 

They would have to change the WORD OF GOD for that explanation.....

 

 

Revelation 19:

 

And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

 

 

And may I remind you of the Warning for "adding to" or "taking away" from the WORD OF GOD....

 

 

Revelation 22:18-19:

 

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

 

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

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Easy for the Post tribbers to attack our position.  But when their position is exposed, silence.  Maybe this thread will go away.  Ouch.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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As per Rev 14:6,7 - Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth; to every nation, tribe, language and people.  He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come.  Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."

 

v 9 - A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice; "If anyone worships the beast, and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he too will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath", v 12 - This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

 

And then Rev 9:20 - The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands, they did not stop worshiping demons and idols..........

 

So where do you Post Tribbers fit in to all this.  For this is all happening near the onset of the 70th Week, except for Rev 9:20. The Church spreading the gospel is now dispelled by an angel spreading the gospel.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

Hi Montana Marv, I dont understand your point in Rev 14:6-7. do you believe that an angel will preach during the tribulation , bringing salvation to "tribulation saints"?   If this is your belief,  do you think this will be visible preaching by an angel? 

 

I just see verses 1 to 8 as describing the end of the world, the second coming, judgment day. After they have seen Jesus, all nations bow before him and an angel proclaims the truth to all nations. Its too late for the "salvation gospel", but eternal truths (eternal gospel) can still be explained to earth's population. I believe the second coming context of this angel is clear:

 

And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

 

This is very similar to the loud rapture event described in Thessalonians, where we have a trumpet, and a shout, and the voice of  an archangel, this could be the same angel as that angel in Rev 14:    1 Thess 4:For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air

 

 

Verses 9-13 are encouraging Christians in all ages to be faithful unto death, its a general encouragement through the ages , but also with specific focus on the future persecution of the beast and once again focus on the second coming "fire and brimstone", wrath and anger at the second coming. 

 

Verses 14-20 are back to the second coming and the two harvests. The first harvest is the post-trib rapture/resurrection where the holy are removed from earth. The second harvest is the gathering of the armies and their destruction at the "great feast" of Armageddon. 

 

 

I am not saying this is the only way to understand Rev 14, I'm just saying its a fair and likely interpretation , if my view in any manner contradicts scripture kindly point it out so that we may all learn from it.

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Montana Marv...... Love where your minds at   :thumbsup:   Very Insightful.....gotta Love the Simplicity.

 

 

So your Thesis is:  If "The Church" who's Mission is to proclaim the Gospel to the World is still on the Earth during The Great Tribulation, then why the need for the Angel to proclaim it "to those who live on the Earth" in Rev 14?

 

Any takers??

 

 

Then after that:

 

How does the "Bride"----------> "The Church" (Born Again Christians), FOLLOW Christ in HIS SECOND COMING (See Rev 19) after the Marriage Supper if they're still on the Earth waiting to be "Raptured" ??

 

 

The WORD is a Two-Edged Sword.  Nothing can stand up to it, save............................THE TRUTH!!

 

 

Praise The LORD!!

 

The bride, the church , joins Jesus in the holy procession in the clouds.  This is known as the rapture. Only then does God shower his wrath on earth. When we avoid the wrath of God, this is normally in second coming context, describing the great wrath on the day of the Lord that we avoid. This wrath entails many events, a massive earthqauke, every mountain and island moved, the armies in Israel destroyed, fire and brimstone, entire regions made desolate, or burning. Part of the marriage procession of the bride is witnessing this destruction of our persecutors just after we are raptured into the clouds to meet Jesus.

 

The second coming: Matthew 24

they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

 

The second coming: Rev 19:

Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns.Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the [c]saints.

 

The second coming: Rev 19:

14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and  clean, were following Him on white horses.

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I guess they say the wedding supper is later, not before the 2nd coming. I've never really read their thoughts on this. I'm sure Argosy or The other Enoch have an explanation.

This up and back thing seems sorta corny too, don't you think? I mean would Jesus call us up just to ask us to follow him back down? Maybe not.

 

Everyone seems to think there is a great landing of believers at the second coming. Can you remind me of the verse that indicates this? I thought we all had rooms in the heavenly Jerusalem, not on the earth during the millenium, so I need to see the verse that indicates we all land back here on earth, instead of just staying up  in heaven. Rev 20 describes the "camp of the saints" here on earth , as if our presence here is just temporary , surely our permanent dwelling is heaven?

 

Have you got a verse? I would like to learn more on this topic.

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Montana Marv...... Love where your minds at   :thumbsup:   Very Insightful.....gotta Love the Simplicity.

 

 

So your Thesis is:  If "The Church" who's Mission is to proclaim the Gospel to the World is still on the Earth during The Great Tribulation, then why the need for the Angel to proclaim it "to those who live on the Earth" in Rev 14?

 

Any takers??

 

 

Then after that:

 

How does the "Bride"----------> "The Church" (Born Again Christians), FOLLOW Christ in HIS SECOND COMING (See Rev 19) after the Marriage Supper if they're still on the Earth waiting to be "Raptured" ??

 

 

The WORD is a Two-Edged Sword.  Nothing can stand up to it, save............................THE TRUTH!!

 

 

Praise The LORD!!

 

The bride, the church , joins Jesus in the holy procession in the clouds.  This is known as the rapture. Only then does God shower his wrath on earth. When we avoid the wrath of God, this is normally in second coming context, describing the great wrath on the day of the Lord that we avoid. This wrath entails many events, a massive earthqauke, every mountain and island moved, the armies in Israel destroyed, fire and brimstone, entire regions made desolate, or burning. Part of the marriage procession of the bride is witnessing this destruction of our persecutors just after we are raptured into the clouds to meet Jesus.

 

The second coming: Matthew 24

they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

 

The second coming: Rev 19:

Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns.Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the [c]saints.

 

The second coming: Rev 19:

14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and  clean, were following Him on white horses.

 

 

 

======================================================================

 

 

The bride, the church , joins Jesus in the holy procession in the clouds.

 

Really? Could you be a bit more specific?.....

 

THE BRIDE JOINS HIM FROM WHERE??

 

Let me remind you Brother....

 

(Revelation 22:18-19):

 

{18}"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 

 

{19} "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

 

 

Here it is....

 

(Revelation 19:1-16) "And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:  {2} For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.  {3} And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.  {4} And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.  {5} And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.  {6} And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.  {7} Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.  {8} And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.  {9} And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.  {10} And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.  {11} And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.  {12} His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.  {13} And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  {14} And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.  {15} And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  {16} And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

 

 

 

The Bride is already in Heaven.......THEN: the Marriage Supper....................THEN: The Armies that WERE IN HEAVEN FOLLOW HIM in HIS SECOND COMING.  Which includes HIS WIFE/BRIDE.... "THE CHURCH" because SHE is one of them that are clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

 

 

**** Special Note *****  Brother Argosy....... If I were you, I would tread lighter than a Church Mouse here (SEE: Revelation 22:18-19 above)

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I guess they say the wedding supper is later, not before the 2nd coming. I've never really read their thoughts on this. I'm sure Argosy or The other Enoch have an explanation.

This up and back thing seems sorta corny too, don't you think? I mean would Jesus call us up just to ask us to follow him back down? Maybe not.

 

Everyone seems to think there is a great landing of believers at the second coming. Can you remind me of the verse that indicates this? I thought we all had rooms in the heavenly Jerusalem, not on the earth during the millenium, so I need to see the verse that indicates we all land back here on earth, instead of just staying up  in heaven. Rev 20 describes the "camp of the saints" here on earth , as if our presence here is just temporary , surely our permanent dwelling is heaven?

 

Have you got a verse? I would like to learn more on this topic.

Actually my brother, your point is noted. I for one do not clearly know if the Raptured saints are actually returning to the earth with Yeshua or not.

Rev: 14The armies which are in heaven followed him on white horses, clothed in white, pure, fine linen.

The passage I cited says "armies" and many believe these are angels, not believers, but notice what they are wearing? White, pure, fine linen seems to indicate overcomers, meaning believers. I'm not sure angels wear this, and it appears many of the bible experts aren't sure either because I've read commentaries on both sides.

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