JohnD Posted April 12, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 897 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,621 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 5,821 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2014 1 John 2: (KJV) 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. In witnessing to the broken off Olive Branches, I didn't realize I had bought into their rhetoric about the need for salvation being a New Testament thing (read that: a part of that New Testament you Christians always claim is scripture but we Jews do not believe in). But salvation is all through the Old Testament too! Genesis 49:18 (KJV) 18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD. And get this, the Hebrew word for salvation is Jesus (Yeshua): Strong's Hebrew 3444 y^eshuw`ah { yesh-oo’-aw} AV - salvation 65, help 4, deliverance 3, health 3, save 1, saving 1, welfare 1; 78 GK - 3802 { יְשׁוּעָה } 1) salvation, deliverance 1a) welfare, prosperity 1b) deliverance 1c) salvation (by God) 1d) victory 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Amen~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-seeker Posted April 12, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 589 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/06/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2014 1 John 2: (KJV) 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. In witnessing to the broken off Olive Branches, I didn't realize I had bought into their rhetoric about the need for salvation being a New Testament thing (read that: a part of that New Testament you Christians always claim is scripture but we Jews do not believe in). But salvation is all through the Old Testament too! Genesis 49:18 (KJV) 18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD. And get this, the Hebrew word for salvation is Jesus (Yeshua): Strong's Hebrew 3444 y^eshuw`ah { yesh-oo’-aw} AV - salvation 65, help 4, deliverance 3, health 3, save 1, saving 1, welfare 1; 78 GK - 3802 { יְשׁוּעָה } 1) salvation, deliverance 1a) welfare, prosperity 1b) deliverance 1c) salvation (by God) 1d) victory I would go on to say that faith, as in "trusting God" is not solely a New Testament concept. It is everywhere in the Old Testament. I would go even further to say that Grace is not absent from the Old Testament: the sequence of salvation and works is in the same order as we see in the NT. God did not first give the law to the Hebrews, and then save them from Egypt. He saved them first, and then said what He expected of them. It goes back to Adam--He was put in paradise (Garden) first, and then told how to stay there. That is how the Law functioned in teh lives of the Israelites. clb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atwood Posted April 12, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 285 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 12, 2014 Yes, you can take your highlighter and mark the subject of Salvation from Genesis - Revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donibm Posted April 17, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 246 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/09/1974 Share Posted April 17, 2014 1 John 2: (KJV) 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. In witnessing to the broken off Olive Branches, I didn't realize I had bought into their rhetoric about the need for salvation being a New Testament thing (read that: a part of that New Testament you Christians always claim is scripture but we Jews do not believe in). But salvation is all through the Old Testament too! Genesis 49:18 (KJV) 18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD. And get this, the Hebrew word for salvation is Jesus (Yeshua): Strong's Hebrew 3444 y^eshuw`ah { yesh-oo’-aw} AV - salvation 65, help 4, deliverance 3, health 3, save 1, saving 1, welfare 1; 78 GK - 3802 { יְשׁוּעָה } 1) salvation, deliverance 1a) welfare, prosperity 1b) deliverance 1c) salvation (by God) 1d) victory I have my own experience in Hebrew (being a former aspirant for a Doctorate in Biblical studies, with a heavy focus on Hebrew and Greek and Latin ... hence the books in my Avatar i suppose - MY books), and I live in a heavily populated Jewish community. HEAVILY populated. But I think you may be off beat. #1) You are right that men will receive Salvation based on their despensation. Adam was no "Jew". Nor was Seth, Noah, ... and not even Abraham himself. In fact, being "Hebrew" is completely unimportant, for even Job was probably an Asian. He was no Hebrew. And he probably lived long before Moses was even thought of. Jethro was no hebrew. Neither was Melchezidek, but Mel knew more about the One God than abraham did. In fact, it was Mel who taught Abraham more about God. That is why Abraham was so excited to meet him. So, there will be countless en and women who will enter the Kingdom of God who never heard of Adam, or Abraham, or Moses. Even now. Yes, they will receive Salvation as well, as long as they have listened and followed the goodness of their own conscious and abandoned sin. Isaiah has a "hidden" message. Only a remnant of the NATURAL seed will be saved. But ALL of Israel will be saved. How so? because both Isaiah and Paul both show that "Israel" are the SAINTS, not a "bloodline". And Saints transcend the line of Jacob, even long before Jacob was born. #2) On the other hand, you are wrong about THEE Salvation. Yes, men who lived long before Moses will also enter the Kingdom of God. But that is not the "Salvation" that we refer to in the New covenant. Have you not read the Scriptures? a) Luke 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, That is a Salvation that has COME, not one that has always existed. Old man Simeon was WAITING on the consolation of Israel, WAITING on Salvation to come. he was not reflecting BACK on some old "salvation". He was WAITING for it. b) Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. The Scripture is clear to me. It is about Jesus. It is falling on the New Covenant. The REDEEMER would not be a redeemer if Salvation could have been found through the blood of animals, and Jesus probably wouldn't have preached also to the souls in the grave either. If you are talking to Jews, you are playing by THEIR rules if you think what you think, but if you showed them the veyr MESSIANIC PROPHECIES that clearly show that the Messiah WILL ME (not was) the Salvation unto the Jews and also the Gentiles, only then will you be showing that it was most certanly futuristic. I think you are confusing two things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted April 17, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.01 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted April 17, 2014 1 John 2: (KJV) 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. In witnessing to the broken off Olive Branches, I didn't realize I had bought into their rhetoric about the need for salvation being a New Testament thing (read that: a part of that New Testament you Christians always claim is scripture but we Jews do not believe in). But salvation is all through the Old Testament too! Genesis 49:18 (KJV) 18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD. And get this, the Hebrew word for salvation is Jesus (Yeshua): Strong's Hebrew 3444 y^eshuw`ah { yesh-oo’-aw} AV - salvation 65, help 4, deliverance 3, health 3, save 1, saving 1, welfare 1; 78 GK - 3802 { יְשׁוּעָה } 1) salvation, deliverance 1a) welfare, prosperity 1b) deliverance 1c) salvation (by God) 1d) victory I have my own experience in Hebrew (being a former aspirant for a Doctorate in Biblical studies, with a heavy focus on Hebrew and Greek and Latin ... hence the books in my Avatar i suppose - MY books), and I live in a heavily populated Jewish community. HEAVILY populated. But I think you may be off beat. #1) You are right that men will receive Salvation based on their despensation. Adam was no "Jew". Nor was Seth, Noah, ... and not even Abraham himself. In fact, being "Hebrew" is completely unimportant, for even Job was probably an Asian. He was no Hebrew. And he probably lived long before Moses was even thought of. Jethro was no hebrew. Neither was Melchezidek, but Mel knew more about the One God than abraham did. In fact, it was Mel who taught Abraham more about God. That is why Abraham was so excited to meet him. So, there will be countless en and women who will enter the Kingdom of God who never heard of Adam, or Abraham, or Moses. Even now. Yes, they will receive Salvation as well, as long as they have listened and followed the goodness of their own conscious and abandoned sin. Isaiah has a "hidden" message. Only a remnant of the NATURAL seed will be saved. But ALL of Israel will be saved. How so? because both Isaiah and Paul both show that "Israel" are the SAINTS, not a "bloodline". And Saints transcend the line of Jacob, even long before Jacob was born. #2) On the other hand, you are wrong about THEE Salvation. Yes, men who lived long before Moses will also enter the Kingdom of God. But that is not the "Salvation" that we refer to in the New covenant. Have you not read the Scriptures? a) Luke 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, That is a Salvation that has COME, not one that has always existed. Old man Simeon was WAITING on the consolation of Israel, WAITING on Salvation to come. he was not reflecting BACK on some old "salvation". He was WAITING for it. b) Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. The Scripture is clear to me. It is about Jesus. It is falling on the New Covenant. The REDEEMER would not be a redeemer if Salvation could have been found through the blood of animals, and Jesus probably wouldn't have preached also to the souls in the grave either. If you are talking to Jews, you are playing by THEIR rules if you think what you think, but if you showed them the veyr MESSIANIC PROPHECIES that clearly show that the Messiah WILL ME (not was) the Salvation unto the Jews and also the Gentiles, only then will you be showing that it was most certanly futuristic. I think you are confusing two things. "Isaiah has a "hidden" message. Only a remnant of the NATURAL seed will be saved. But ALL of Israel will be saved. How so? because both Isaiah and Paul both show that "Israel" are the SAINTS, not a "bloodline". I'm confused by what you are saying here. It sounds like replacement theology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted April 17, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,989 Topics Per Day: 0.49 Content Count: 48,687 Content Per Day: 11.89 Reputation: 30,342 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2014 We know that,in the New Testament,salvation comes by grace through faith in Jesus Christ John 1:12.A misconception about the Old Testament way of salvation is the Jews were saved by keeping the law.But we know from scripture that is not true Galatians 3:11. Paul taught in Romans 3:20 that keeping the law by either Old Testament or New Testament Jews because "no one will be declared righteous in His sight" by observing the law.The Law was never intended to save anyone.The Old Testament way of Salvation was through faith alone Galatians 3:8-9 which shows faith along with Abraham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted April 17, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 503 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2014 We know that,in the New Testament,salvation comes by grace through faith in Jesus Christ John 1:12.A misconception about the Old Testament way of salvation is the Jews were saved by keeping the law.But we know from scripture that is not true Galatians 3:11. Paul taught in Romans 3:20 that keeping the law by either Old Testament or New Testament Jews because "no one will be declared righteous in His sight" by observing the law.The Law was never intended to save anyone.The Old Testament way of Salvation was through faith alone Galatians 3:8-9 which shows faith along with Abraham. I thought that with Abraham it was through blood lines. In fact the Epistles underline the spirit over flesh or law. See Romans 9:6-8 But I agree with the direction you've taken. ***Somehow, your text has changed or maybe I initially misread it. The only thing that I can add is through Jacob we are now saved in faith/spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted April 17, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,204 Content Per Day: 3.35 Reputation: 16,629 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 17, 2014 While it was prophasied in the old testament, it was in Acts that the Holy Spirit was poured out on all flesh, where we are called the bride of Christ, where we are indwelt and sealed by the Holy Spirit and adopted into God''s family. These aspects set us apart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donibm Posted April 21, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 246 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/09/1974 Share Posted April 21, 2014 1 John 2: (KJV) 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. In witnessing to the broken off Olive Branches, I didn't realize I had bought into their rhetoric about the need for salvation being a New Testament thing (read that: a part of that New Testament you Christians always claim is scripture but we Jews do not believe in). But salvation is all through the Old Testament too! Genesis 49:18 (KJV) 18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD. And get this, the Hebrew word for salvation is Jesus (Yeshua): Strong's Hebrew 3444 y^eshuw`ah { yesh-oo’-aw} AV - salvation 65, help 4, deliverance 3, health 3, save 1, saving 1, welfare 1; 78 GK - 3802 { יְשׁוּעָה } 1) salvation, deliverance 1a) welfare, prosperity 1b) deliverance 1c) salvation (by God) 1d) victory I have my own experience in Hebrew (being a former aspirant for a Doctorate in Biblical studies, with a heavy focus on Hebrew and Greek and Latin ... hence the books in my Avatar i suppose - MY books), and I live in a heavily populated Jewish community. HEAVILY populated. But I think you may be off beat. #1) You are right that men will receive Salvation based on their despensation. Adam was no "Jew". Nor was Seth, Noah, ... and not even Abraham himself. In fact, being "Hebrew" is completely unimportant, for even Job was probably an Asian. He was no Hebrew. And he probably lived long before Moses was even thought of. Jethro was no hebrew. Neither was Melchezidek, but Mel knew more about the One God than abraham did. In fact, it was Mel who taught Abraham more about God. That is why Abraham was so excited to meet him. So, there will be countless en and women who will enter the Kingdom of God who never heard of Adam, or Abraham, or Moses. Even now. Yes, they will receive Salvation as well, as long as they have listened and followed the goodness of their own conscious and abandoned sin. Isaiah has a "hidden" message. Only a remnant of the NATURAL seed will be saved. But ALL of Israel will be saved. How so? because both Isaiah and Paul both show that "Israel" are the SAINTS, not a "bloodline". And Saints transcend the line of Jacob, even long before Jacob was born. #2) On the other hand, you are wrong about THEE Salvation. Yes, men who lived long before Moses will also enter the Kingdom of God. But that is not the "Salvation" that we refer to in the New covenant. Have you not read the Scriptures? a) Luke 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, That is a Salvation that has COME, not one that has always existed. Old man Simeon was WAITING on the consolation of Israel, WAITING on Salvation to come. he was not reflecting BACK on some old "salvation". He was WAITING for it. b) Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. The Scripture is clear to me. It is about Jesus. It is falling on the New Covenant. The REDEEMER would not be a redeemer if Salvation could have been found through the blood of animals, and Jesus probably wouldn't have preached also to the souls in the grave either. If you are talking to Jews, you are playing by THEIR rules if you think what you think, but if you showed them the veyr MESSIANIC PROPHECIES that clearly show that the Messiah WILL ME (not was) the Salvation unto the Jews and also the Gentiles, only then will you be showing that it was most certanly futuristic. I think you are confusing two things. "Isaiah has a "hidden" message. Only a remnant of the NATURAL seed will be saved. But ALL of Israel will be saved. How so? because both Isaiah and Paul both show that "Israel" are the SAINTS, not a "bloodline". I'm confused by what you are saying here. It sounds like replacement theology. LOL No Oak, I'm not one of those who side with replacement theology. I only speak what is IN the Word of God. Now, to some it may be (to them), but as the author of the words, and knowing what RT is, I know that it is not. For example, I can say that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism (and I do, and I mean it)... and right away, the "pro-Israel" people will label as a RT. But here is the truth: Judaism promotes a Messiah. That is the core of it. If it fails to show a Messiah, it will be an utter failure. Christianity shows that Messiah. That is why I say that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism, and I mean it. I also understand the Conditional First Covenant and how/where it applies to all the other Covenants (yes, there are more than just two) and the Unconditional New Covenant ... and how some people confuse them over each other. Not RT, Isaiah does say that who and what Israel is. he clearly shows that Israel are they who turn from sin. Not RT, Paul more clearly shows that the true Jew is one who is INWARDLY (circumcised heart unto the Lord). Not RT, God Himself shows us in both prophecy of the Messiah, and again in Scriptures post the Messiah. But, that was not the core of my response. My response to the OP was focused more on the thread - that Salvation couldn't have been in the past, in the context that he/she was suggesting, because they were LOOKING for that Salvation. You don't look for something in the past and ask about it towards the future. But to you, I just wanted to explain that I am not some hardcore RT person. There are elements that appear that way, certainly, and I know that many Jews will see damnation, but their promise to the land is eternal ... though I've never been certain on how that would apply ... considering the earth will be destroyed and a new earth made. But, that's never been very important to me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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