Heaven’s Important, But It’s Not the End of the World

[oak]

I read the article by Pastor Kevin and though he does say things that I can agree with like Christ after His Resurrection is not a type of imaginary figure to be contemplated, in distant way. But I think Pastor Kevin does an injustice by ignoring The Holy Spirit and the importance of the Pentecost. Christ told his apostles: ...it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper, will not come to you." John 16:7 Further, "And they were all filled with Holy Spirit...." Acts 2:4 And so Pastor's quote of Wright, “Our task in the present… is to live as resurrection people in between Easter and the final day, with our Christian life, corporate and individual, in both worship and mission, as a sign of the first and a foretaste of the second.” This is not what I believe to be the task of a Christian at all. Here on earth we are to strive for the acquisition of the Holy Spirit. Pastor Kevin's ideas sound like a false doctrine to me.

Oak

[nebula]

Here on earth we are to strive for the acquisition of the Holy Spirit.

 

[oak]

Here on earth we are to strive for the acquisition of the Holy Spirit.

Revised: Here on earth we are to strive for the acquisition of the Holy Spirit through the power of Christ.

" And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit." (John 1:33)

“When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, (Luke 12:11)

"...for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.” Luke 12:12

" And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[a] his Spirit who lives in you." (Romans 8:11)

Left as was stated:

Yes, salvation is through Christ. But we have to be obedient to Christ. You just quoted me back. How do you read Acts? What does Christ want his disciples to do: "But you will receive "power" when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." Acts 6:8 "Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit..." Acts 2:33Again, what is the purpose of Acts? What does Christ mean when he say's to his Apostles, " ...it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper, will not come to you." John 16:7 Who is the Restrainer here on Earth? How do the Apostles confirm Christ on the people in Epistles?

Yes I am declaring what I was taught by faith. This is not my idea but I believe it to be true. The Trinity is one; God is one. By what power was Christ able to minister and teach on earth? Please answer at least one of my scripture quotes or show me my mistake?

Oak

 

[missmuffet]

 

 

 

 

Heaven’s Important, But It’s Not the End of the World

20 April 2014

 

As a pastor, I’ve talked to many people who, when faced with the loss of a loved one, try to find consolation in the thought of their dearly departed’s soul at rest among the clouds in heaven. The image often includes a harp, a halo, some wings, and a choir’s steady chorus of Kumbaya. I’ve never found much comfort in this image, and doubt that anyone who has actually endured a choir practice would find much excitement in an eternity of it.

 

<snip>

 

Whether we admit our need or not, we know that something in us just doesn’t work the way it’s supposed to. We can’t simply keep spouting the hollow platitude that death is a natural part of living. The reason death feels wrong is that, according to the Bible, it is.  Death is the enemy. But Easter makes an amazing claim. Yes, death is the enemy, but in Christ it is a defeated enemy. As astounding as it seems to say, as outlandish as it is to hear, a bodily resurrection awaits.

 

And this means that ultimately heaven is not our home. Instead, the Bible points Christians beyond it to a recreated, healed heavens and earth, the culmination of our regular prayer for God’s will to be done ‘on earth as it is in heaven.’ At the final consummation of God’s Kingdom, these two places—heaven and earth—will be one and the same. God’s dwelling place will be with men (Revelation 21:2-3). A groaning creation, we’re told, awaits this day of liberation (Romans 8:19-21). Creation doesn’t long to be done away with, vaporized, replaced. It longs to be redeemed. So do we. We long for what Tolkien called ‘everything sad coming untrue’ and Lewis called ‘heaven working backward.’ The world doesn’t work the way it should. We don’t work the way we should. But one day, by God’s grace, we will.

 

And so the hope of Easter is the hope of living physically before the face of God, sustained by him for all eternity. ...

 

Read the full article here

For right now heaven is our home until after the tribulation when the earth has been cleansed and made new as the New Jerusalem and New Heaven.There will also be a new heaven above created.The Bible does not say if we will have access to that.

 

 

Hi Bo,

 

It is not after the Tribulation that the earth and heavens are created anew, it is after the Millennium and at the Great White Throne Judgement.  Read Revelation 20 thru to the end of Revelation for a better understanding.

 

Revelation 21:2   tells me that the New Jerusalem will be set up at the start of the Millennium.

 

 

The timing of the New Heaven and New Earth, along with the New Jerusalem in not in the Millennium, but after the Great White Throne Judgement. In sequence, scripture tells us:

1. Revelation 19:11-16: Christ returning
2. Revelation 19:17-21: Battle of Armageddon - the beast and False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone.
3. Revelation 20:1-6: Satan is bound in the bottomless pit for 1000 years, Christ rules for 1000 years. 
4. Revelation 20:7-10: After the 1000 years are up, Satan is loosed for a time to gather another army against Christ, Satan looses and is cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone
5. Revelation 20:11-15: Old earth and heaven flees, Christ sits on the Great White Throne Judgment  seat and the dead rise into judgment.
6. Revelation 21:1-22:17: The New Heaven and New Earth appear, the description of what the New Jerusalem looks like and what it will be like living there.

 

Since I have done more research and reading OneLight the New Jerusalem and New Heaven may be set up after the Millenium.

But.....then again I have read some other resources to make me believe it is set up at the beginning of the millennium.

[nebula]

 

 

Here on earth we are to strive for the acquisition of the Holy Spirit.

[ ]

 

Revised: Here on earth we are to strive for the acquisition of the Holy Spirit through the power of Christ.

" And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit." (John 1:33)

“When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, (Luke 12:11)

"...for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.” Luke 12:12

" And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[a] his Spirit who lives in you." (Romans 8:11)

Left as was stated:

Yes, salvation is through Christ. But we have to be obedient to Christ. You just quoted me back. How do you read Acts? What does Christ want his disciples to do: "But you will receive "power" when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." Acts 6:8 "Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit..." Acts 2:33Again, what is the purpose of Acts? What does Christ mean when he say's to his Apostles, " ...it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper, will not come to you." John 16:7 Who is the Restrainer here on Earth? How do the Apostles confirm Christ on the people in Epistles?

Yes I am declaring what I was taught by faith. This is not my idea but I believe it to be true. The Trinity is one; God is one. By what power was Christ able to minister and teach on earth? Please answer at least one of my scripture quotes or show me my mistake?

Oak

 

If the goal was to acquire the Holy Spirit, what was the goal after the Holy Spirit fell on the disciples (Acts 2)?

 

Once you were filled with the Holy Spirit, is there a further acquisition that you are to strive for?

 

And why strive for what is freely given?

 

2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith ? 3 Are you so foolish ? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh ? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain -if indeed it was in vain ? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith ? (Gal. 3)

[Guest]

 

The Power

 

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

 

Of

 

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

 

His

 

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

 

Word

 

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11

[oak]

Oak stated

Revised: Here on earth we are to strive for the acquisition of the Holy Spirit through the power of Christ.

" And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit." (John 1:33)

“When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, (Luke 12:11)

"...for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.” Luke 12:12

" And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[a] his Spirit who lives in you." (Romans 8:11)

Left as was stated:

Yes, salvation is through Christ. But we have to be obedient to Christ. You just quoted me back. How do you read Acts? What does Christ want his disciples to do: "But you will receive "power" when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." Acts 6:8 "Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit..." Acts 2:33Again, what is the purpose of Acts? What does Christ mean when he say's to his Apostles, " ...it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper, will not come to you." John 16:7 Who is the Restrainer here on Earth? How do the Apostles confirm Christ on the people in Epistles?

Yes I am declaring what I was taught by faith. This is not my idea but I believe it to be true. The Trinity is one; God is one. By what power was Christ able to minister and teach on earth? Please answer at least one of my scripture quotes or show me my mistake?

Oak

Nebula stated:

If the goal was to acquire the Holy Spirit, what was the goal after the Holy Spirit fell on the disciples (Acts 2)?

Once you were filled with the Holy Spirit, is there a further acquisition that you are to strive for?

And why strive for what is freely given?

2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith ? 3 Are you so foolish ? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh ? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain -if indeed it was in vain ? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith ? (Gal. 3)

Oak stated:

I see your point and your feelings about me being foolish. Of course by my own exertions I can not receive faith - and thereby live in spirit - by works, law or flesh. But I feel that we need to be awake to our spiritual state.

That is receiving the gift of Salvation from Christ, we should honestly look at how aligned we are with Christ's commandments. For I believe you can fall asleep in the faith and you can wrongly be living your life in addictions, putting worldly things above Christ etc. "Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves that is Jesus Christ is in you? -unless you indeed you fail to meet the test." 1 Cor. 13:5 We can pray to God for more faith, wisdom, and other good things. Further, the Galatians received the gift of the Holy Spirit but were reproached by Paul, "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the Grace of Christ are turning to a different gospel." Gal 1:6. By many peoples understanding neither the Galatians nor even Peter should be corrected after receiving the free Gift.

The best thing that can be said is that Pastor Kevin and I are saying the same thing in different ways. However his article does not ring true to me, almost point by point.

Oak

[OneLight]

Heaven’s Important, But It’s Not the End of the World

20 April 2014

 

As a pastor, I’ve talked to many people who, when faced with the loss of a loved one, try to find consolation in the thought of their dearly departed’s soul at rest among the clouds in heaven. The image often includes a harp, a halo, some wings, and a choir’s steady chorus of Kumbaya. I’ve never found much comfort in this image, and doubt that anyone who has actually endured a choir practice would find much excitement in an eternity of it.

 

<snip>

 

Whether we admit our need or not, we know that something in us just doesn’t work the way it’s supposed to. We can’t simply keep spouting the hollow platitude that death is a natural part of living. The reason death feels wrong is that, according to the Bible, it is.  Death is the enemy. But Easter makes an amazing claim. Yes, death is the enemy, but in Christ it is a defeated enemy. As astounding as it seems to say, as outlandish as it is to hear, a bodily resurrection awaits.

 

And this means that ultimately heaven is not our home. Instead, the Bible points Christians beyond it to a recreated, healed heavens and earth, the culmination of our regular prayer for God’s will to be done ‘on earth as it is in heaven.’ At the final consummation of God’s Kingdom, these two places—heaven and earth—will be one and the same. God’s dwelling place will be with men (Revelation 21:2-3). A groaning creation, we’re told, awaits this day of liberation (Romans 8:19-21). Creation doesn’t long to be done away with, vaporized, replaced. It longs to be redeemed. So do we. We long for what Tolkien called ‘everything sad coming untrue’ and Lewis called ‘heaven working backward.’ The world doesn’t work the way it should. We don’t work the way we should. But one day, by God’s grace, we will.

 

And so the hope of Easter is the hope of living physically before the face of God, sustained by him for all eternity. ...

 

Read the full article here

For right now heaven is our home until after the tribulation when the earth has been cleansed and made new as the New Jerusalem and New Heaven.There will also be a new heaven above created.The Bible does not say if we will have access to that.

 

Hi Bo,

 

It is not after the Tribulation that the earth and heavens are created anew, it is after the Millennium and at the Great White Throne Judgement.  Read Revelation 20 thru to the end of Revelation for a better understanding.

Revelation 21:2   tells me that the New Jerusalem will be set up at the start of the Millennium.

 

The timing of the New Heaven and New Earth, along with the New Jerusalem in not in the Millennium, but after the Great White Throne Judgement. In sequence, scripture tells us:

• Revelation 19:11-16: Christ returning
• Revelation 19:17-21: Battle of Armageddon - the beast and False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone.
• Revelation 20:1-6: Satan is bound in the bottomless pit for 1000 years, Christ rules for 1000 years. 
• Revelation 20:7-10: After the 1000 years are up, Satan is loosed for a time to gather another army against Christ, Satan looses and is cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone
• Revelation 20:11-15: Old earth and heaven flees, Christ sits on the Great White Throne Judgment  seat and the dead rise into judgment.
• Revelation 21:1-22:17: The New Heaven and New Earth appear, the description of what the New Jerusalem looks like and what it will be like living there.

Since I have done more research and reading OneLight the New Jerusalem and New Heaven may be set up after the Millenium.

But.....then again I have read some other resources to make me believe it is set up at the beginning of the millennium.

Than allow me to pose this question to you. What does scripture say?

[missmuffet]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Heaven’s Important, But It’s Not the End of the World

20 April 2014

 

As a pastor, I’ve talked to many people who, when faced with the loss of a loved one, try to find consolation in the thought of their dearly departed’s soul at rest among the clouds in heaven. The image often includes a harp, a halo, some wings, and a choir’s steady chorus of Kumbaya. I’ve never found much comfort in this image, and doubt that anyone who has actually endured a choir practice would find much excitement in an eternity of it.

 

<snip>

 

Whether we admit our need or not, we know that something in us just doesn’t work the way it’s supposed to. We can’t simply keep spouting the hollow platitude that death is a natural part of living. The reason death feels wrong is that, according to the Bible, it is.  Death is the enemy. But Easter makes an amazing claim. Yes, death is the enemy, but in Christ it is a defeated enemy. As astounding as it seems to say, as outlandish as it is to hear, a bodily resurrection awaits.

 

And this means that ultimately heaven is not our home. Instead, the Bible points Christians beyond it to a recreated, healed heavens and earth, the culmination of our regular prayer for God’s will to be done ‘on earth as it is in heaven.’ At the final consummation of God’s Kingdom, these two places—heaven and earth—will be one and the same. God’s dwelling place will be with men (Revelation 21:2-3). A groaning creation, we’re told, awaits this day of liberation (Romans 8:19-21). Creation doesn’t long to be done away with, vaporized, replaced. It longs to be redeemed. So do we. We long for what Tolkien called ‘everything sad coming untrue’ and Lewis called ‘heaven working backward.’ The world doesn’t work the way it should. We don’t work the way we should. But one day, by God’s grace, we will.

 

And so the hope of Easter is the hope of living physically before the face of God, sustained by him for all eternity. ...

 

Read the full article here

For right now heaven is our home until after the tribulation when the earth has been cleansed and made new as the New Jerusalem and New Heaven.There will also be a new heaven above created.The Bible does not say if we will have access to that.

 

 

Hi Bo,

 

It is not after the Tribulation that the earth and heavens are created anew, it is after the Millennium and at the Great White Throne Judgement.  Read Revelation 20 thru to the end of Revelation for a better understanding.

 

Revelation 21:2   tells me that the New Jerusalem will be set up at the start of the Millennium.

 

 

The timing of the New Heaven and New Earth, along with the New Jerusalem in not in the Millennium, but after the Great White Throne Judgement. In sequence, scripture tells us:

•  
• Revelation 19:11-16: Christ returning
• Revelation 19:17-21: Battle of Armageddon - the beast and False Prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone.
• Revelation 20:1-6: Satan is bound in the bottomless pit for 1000 years, Christ rules for 1000 years. 
• Revelation 20:7-10: After the 1000 years are up, Satan is loosed for a time to gather another army against Christ, Satan looses and is cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone
• Revelation 20:11-15: Old earth and heaven flees, Christ sits on the Great White Throne Judgment  seat and the dead rise into judgment.
• Revelation 21:1-22:17: The New Heaven and New Earth appear, the description of what the New Jerusalem looks like and what it will be like living there.

Since I have done more research and reading OneLight the New Jerusalem and New Heaven may be set up after the Millenium.

But.....then again I have read some other resources to make me believe it is set up at the beginning of the millennium.

 

Than allow me to pose this question to you. What does scripture say?

 

We might be seeing eye to eye on most things.This is how I have it.

1)Rapture 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

2)Tribulation (7 years)

3)Armageddon

4)Satan bound

5)Millennial Kingdom (1000 years) Revelation 20:4-6

6)Great White Throne

7) New Heaven and New Earth established Revelation 21-22. This is where I am confused because I want to read more and research more on if this should be placed differently.

[OneLight]

We might be seeing eye to eye on most things.This is how I have it.

1)Rapture 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

2)Tribulation (7 years)

3)Armageddon

4)Satan bound

5)Millennial Kingdom (1000 years) Revelation 20:4-6

6)Great White Throne

7) New Heaven and New Earth established Revelation 21-22. This is where I am confused because I want to read more and research more on if this should be placed differently.

We see eye to eye on all but when the rapture will occur.

As for the New Heaven and New Earth, read Revelation. Scripture tells us when and where.