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jerryR34

What did Christ sacrifice if he is with God in Heaven?

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he sacrifice everything,love and life which makes us whole

Is He less than when He came to earth?  if not He did not sacrifice anything, if so, He is not perfect.

Edited by jerryR34
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Jesus was the Passover lamb.  He ended the need for sacrifices for sins.  I can see what you mean about what did he have to give up.  God the Son was that before he became a human and was that afterward.  I'm not sure about the Holy Spirit, but God the Father I can tell you had to give up the aroma he enjoyed from sacrifices.  He even accepted a human sacrifice one time in Judges 11:29-40. 

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he sacrifice everything,love and life which makes us whole

Is He less than when He came to earth?  if not He did not sacrifice anything, if so, He is not perfect.

jerry check out what it says in the first chapter of the gospel of John(not the letters)

It says... In the beginning was The Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

This tells us Jesus is the same Jesus before creation, during creation, and when The Word/Jesus became flesh and dwelt amoung us.

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he sacrifice everything,love and life which makes us whole

Is He less than when He came to earth? if not He did not sacrifice anything, if so, He is not perfect.
jerry check out what it says in the first chapter of the gospel of John(not the letters)

It says... In the beginning was The Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

This tells us Jesus is the same Jesus before creation, during creation, and when The Word/Jesus became flesh and dwelt amoung us.

If He's the same then, logically, he gave up nothing. Where then is the sacrifice?

Edited by jerryR34
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Greetings Jerry, first off Jesus was already in heaven, a place where the streets are gold. Riches so abundant we can hardly fathom. He gave up that to come here. Next, He was whipped and mocked and his face spit on, and his beard ripped off. Then he was crucified. Ever hear the term sacrificial lamb... or lamb of God? This is Jesus. The bible says bloodshed must occur for the attonment of sin, Jesus shed His blood. The bible says accursed of God is any man who is hung on a tree... Jesus was hung on a tree with nails. Jesus bore the wrath of God so that man could have a restored relationship with God. Adam in genisis messed that relationship up. Jesus is also called in the bible the second adam. Everything that happened to Jesus was payment for all of man kinds sin, past present and future.Jesus Christ, was the sacrifice. He dies for our sins.

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I'm not really sure I see Jesus' sacrifice as comparable to the suffering mankind would (and does) endure without salvation.  In my understanding, damnation is separation from God.  This is what Jesus endured on the cross: taking on God's wrath and being separated from him.  But this hardly seems a comparable punishment to the collective damnation of every human being, given two things.

 

- First, Jesus' suffering was temporary, as others have pointed out.  Yes, he might have been separated from God and yes, he endured all of God's wrath, but at this point in time Jesus no longer suffers, correct?  Jesus' sacrifice was very short, especially if you compare it to the eternal damnation nonbelievers purportedly suffer.  This makes even less sense to me if you consider that God works outside of time.  If Jesus is truly God, how could any finite amount of time have been of any significance?  I don't see how it matters how horrible the experience would have been for Jesus if the time frame for his punishment was finite, and God operates outside of time.

- Second, Jesus' sacrifice apparently didn't "cover" everybody.  If there are still souls condemned by God to Hell, how can Jesus' sacrifice be seen as sufficient?  Was it only sufficient for the elect?  How can one assert that Jesus died for the entire world (1 John 2:2), yet not every soul is promised salvation?  To the Calvinist/supporter of predestination, some are even promised damnation regardless of Jesus' sacrifice.

If Jesus took on just one persons sins, you may have something, but He took upon Himself all the sins of every human being ... and being in sin is separation from God. Compound how one can feel lost when thinking of just their life and compound it billions of times. You can then begin to get a picture.

His sacrifice does cover everyone, even those who reject His sacrifice. Nobody can blame Jesus for when someone rejects His free gift. We will all stand accountable for our own decisions.

You nailed it! Jesus' blood paid the sin penalty for all. Those who reject His "pardon" spend eternity in hell for their sin of "unbelief."

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Blessings Jerry...

    I did respond very early on this thread but I just wanted to add that it seems you don't realize that we are talking about the Creator of the Universe,Almighty God........the Great I Am that Rules Heaven ,Earth,everything & His Perfect dwelling place is Heaven...................Jerry,Heaven is something I do not think we could even imagine....the Angels cry out "Holy,Holy,Holy!".......He is worshipped 24/7,,,,,but there ,time & space is not bound....so everything is constant!He has named every star in the universe,He sits upon his Throne in Majesty................never hungered,never thirsted,never tired,never knew pain, suffering,discomfort or even the restraints of gravity!He does not even need the sun for light,everyone in Heaven basks in His Glory.........................Perfection!!!!!

   Jerry,He left His Majesty to be reduced to servitude.............what did He sacrifice?He sacrificed what He did not have to sacrifice simply because He loves us..........Isn't that enough?    God Bless you                                                                             With love-in Christ,Kwik

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Is the fact He lowered himself for a brief moment in His eternal existence to face the challenges we face on a daily basis worthy of being called a sacrifice? We face these daily, and if we succumb to the fact we are not pertect, and question it, we potentially face eternal punishment for a finite existence...Did Jesus really sacrifice anything?  I take umberage at being called a nonbeliever here...

 

The post does not seek an answer.  By its tone it suggests an attack upon its own limited scope - proving to the reader that the question itself is invalid and illiterate.

 

This is what is called a straw man argument.

 

It erects a false argument and then tears it down.  Actually the army of God is on another hill entirely.  

The post totally misses the target - and that is my point.

 

Nice try, but no cigar.

 

The post is humanistic.  Read it again.  It purports to argue against religion by using the self as its major example.  'We', 'we', 'we' appears throughout the post.

 

But the issue, dear reader, isn't WE.  It's God.   

 

Read the following carefully....

 

Jesus shed His blood and died upon the cross to pay the penalty for our sins in the eyes of God.

 

It is God that holds mankind guilty.  Not men.

It is God that demands justice.  Not man.

It is God that has said 'the soul that sins shall surely die.'  Not man.

 

Since Genesis 3, man has been unsuccessfully trying to hide his own naked guilt before God.  He's failed miserably because the standard is God's standard not human.

 

The 10 commandments is a divine law, not something passed by congress.   If congress had passed the law it would have probably been ten thousand pages long, with lots of loop holes for the rich and powerful.  There are no loop holes in the ten commandments.  ALL are guilty.  ALL are sinful.   ALL are destined for the eternal flame.

 

Eternal existence notwithstanding, Jesus laid down His earthly life.  That's the same life we all enjoy at this moment in time.   Jesus did it and He did it in excruciating pain and public humiliation.  Jesus shed His blood.   

 

The blood is for God.   The cross is for man. 

 

Jesus said we should take up our cross and follow Him.   Jesus shed His blood for us upon the cross to satisfy the demand of God for judgment upon sin.

 

In case the reader missed something along the way, BLOOD is earthly, physical, and is the life of the creature from which it issues.   Jesus gave His blood - His life in payment for sin.

 

God hates sinners.

 

Make no mistake here.   It isn't some abstract behavior that's destined for the fires of Hell.   It's sinners.   Every word and every line in The Word of God says so.

 

And Jesus died for sinners......not their abstract mistakes and jokes and naughtiness.

 

The blood pays all......IF its applied......IF its accepted by the human......IF its believed.

 

Otherwise you burn, sinner.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

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God hates sinners.

 

God hates no one.  God hates sin. I have no fear of burning.

Edited by jerryR34
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