Persuaded Posted June 30, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2014 Olive trees and light bearers... (Candlestick is misleading) Refers to the tabernacle, and the seven branched lamp-stand. It was fed by pure olive oil. Oil is a frequent idiom for the Holy Spirit. These two, idiomatically, are two lamp stands/light bearers, tapped directly into the source. The Spirit gives them an in-exhaustible supply of His oil, for as long as it suits God's plan. At Pentecost, (or John 20, when Christ breathed on them) the Spirit came upon the Church. After the rapture, the Spirit (restrainer of 2 Thes 2:7) no longer indwells "those that dwell on the earth". The Spirit, in the OT pattern, becomes conditional and temporary (David: "take not thy Holy Spirit from me..."). We, today, can not validly pray that prayer. These two witnesses, in contrast to the earth-dwellers, DO have a permanent in dwelling of the HS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted June 30, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted June 30, 2014 The two witnesses will be real men. Revelation does not make any sense otherwise. Why will the World be shocked when they see them resurrected? Because you don't normally see people rise from the dead that's why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persuaded Posted June 30, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2014 Yes, the witnesses are real men. The "two" I referred to was the "olive tree and candlestick(sic)". Their light (witness) comes from an in-exhaustible source (the tree which is the source of the oil). Sort of like a fighter jet tethered to a fuel tanker... I like the parallel with Joshua, where he sends in two "spies" into Jericho. They accomplish nothing that would further Joshua's (or the Lord's) battle plan, but instead accomplish the salvation of Rahab. Instead of two spies, maybe it's more appropriate to call them two witnesses? There are several other Joshua/Revelation parallels: - there is silence in heaven before the seventh trumpet, just as they marched silently around Jericho until blowing their trumpets on the seventh day. - ten heads and seven horns in Revelation, versus Canaan with ten kings, three already conquered and seven remaining in the other side of the Jordan. - the land being dispossessed of its usurpers. Joshua conquering the seven kings in Canaan, Jesus conquering Satan's forces that occupy the earth. - victories accomplished with signs in the sky, sun and moon. - kings of the earth saying "rocks, fall on us." or hiding in caves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted June 30, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,175 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,479 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted June 30, 2014 These 2 Witnesses are witnessing to Israel especially of what they have seen & heard. 1. At Mount transfiguration. `And behold 2 men were talking with Him; & they were Moses & Elijah, who appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.` (Luke 9: 30 & 31) 2. At the tomb. `And it happened that while they were perplexed about this (the empty tomb) behold, 2 men suddenly stood near them in dazzling apparel.` (Luke 24: 4) 3. At the Ascension. `And as they (the disciples) were gazing intently into the sky while He was departing, behold, 2 men in white clothing stood beside them;...` (Acts 1: 10) 4.In Jerusalem in the tribulation. `And I will grant authority to my 2 witnesses, & they will prophesy...... & when they have finished their testimony..` (Rev. 11: 3 & 7) These 2 men, 2 witnesses, are able to speak of what they have witnessed of Christ`s, death, resurrection & ascension to Israel. To give a `testimony,` is to tell of what one has witnessed, and God would not leave His people without witnesses to help them in their darkest hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 1, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2014 Olive trees and light bearers...(Candlestick is misleading)Refers to the tabernacle, and the seven branched lamp-stand. It was fed by pure olive oil. Oil is a frequent idiom for the Holy Spirit.These two, idiomatically, are two lamp stands/light bearers, tapped directly into the source. The Spirit gives them an in-exhaustible supply of His oil, for as long as it suits God's plan.At Pentecost, (or John 20, when Christ breathed on them) the Spirit came upon the Church. After the rapture, the Spirit (restrainer of 2 Thes 2:7) no longer indwells "those that dwell on the earth". The Spirit, in the OT pattern, becomes conditional and temporary (David: "take not thy Holy Spirit from me..."). We, today, can not validly pray that prayer. These two witnesses, in contrast to the earth-dwellers, DO have a permanent in dwelling of the HS.The Greek word is luchnia, meaning lamp-stands (G3087) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persuaded Posted July 1, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2014 Yes, and I suggest "light-bearers" means the same as lamp stands, but nudges your understanding a little closer to its meaning in 11 of the 12 places it is used in the NT. (The Heb 9 instance is a reference to the tabernacle lamp stand, which ties the olive tree/oil into the discussion). Candlestick is the unfortunate KJV word used, which further obfuscates the "witness" meaning/connotation that is implied in each usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted July 1, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 75 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) Shiloh wrote: "We have men empowered by God to perform signs and wonders and preach the Gospel. Is that so difficult to comprehend?" No not at all, in fact there are many references that are human, each with a meaning according to scripture as already pointed out by the members in other threads. I am pretty sure you have many other texts and scriptural concepts all tied in and connected with what you are saying, and although I don't quite see it your way, I can see what you are saying is sound. I find that the whole chapter is in symbols, even the two witnesses, but of course this does not mean that there are no realities associated with each symbol. All these symbols are real events and real things. What those things are depends on knowing some basic keys that unlock Revelation. Which I would like to introduce to you later in other related threads started by someone else. Why? because I feel it is better to relate to what others have discovered in keeping on the same level in discussion. And it would be a shame not to incorporate what you have accumulated over the years. Edited July 1, 2014 by Paradox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 1, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2014 Yes, and I suggest "light-bearers" means the same as lamp stands, but nudges your understanding a little closer to its meaning in 11 of the 12 places it is used in the NT. (The Heb 9 instance is a reference to the tabernacle lamp stand, which ties the olive tree/oil into the discussion).Candlestick is the unfortunate KJV word used, which further obfuscates the "witness" meaning/connotation that is implied in each usage.Have you considered the term in a new age sense? The Message uses this term frequently, which is chock full of new age terminology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persuaded Posted July 1, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2014 ^no, I'm not very clued in to new age stuff, nor have I read the Message, nor plan to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezekiel Posted July 1, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 315 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/25/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1959 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Now when Christ blessed be his name speak of the olive tree and saying when its leafs are tender know that the end is near and they or them says its a nation but now you say its a man rather two men where is your reasoning on this matter its the same Christ blessed be his name why now this that you say men. Look at the latter part of revelation 11 Christ has said look at the little things and all will be givin to ya so look at two words in this chapter they and them and seek the meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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