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Guest shiloh357

Shiloh 357

 

"God doesn't choose who will or will not get saved."

 

I now see your error and the crux of your theology

 

I'm afraid what your teaching is Humanism it now becomes "choosing God" ( which you promote) to Chosen people ( which the bible promotes)

 

The bible is not like any other religion where we may choose our god, like Islam, buddha etc

 

Christianity I'm afraid is based on God choosing us who will follow him who will be saved and who wont

 

 John 6:64-65: "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him. And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.

 

John 6:43-44: "Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

 

Lev 20: 8  I have chosen you as my people, and I expect you to obey my laws

No.    None of those verses claim that God chooses who will or will not be saved.

 

God chose Israel for service, not for salvation.   Jesus is says that no one can come unless the father draws Him.  Jesus did not say that God only draws certain people to Him.

 

God knows who will or will not be saved, but it never says that God chooses who will or will not be saved.   Your teaching is that of another Gospel.  

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@Qnts2

 

The term Goy means nation or people group. Gentile means not-Israel or non-Jew. Israel is a nation/goy. Egyptians are a nation/goy. Any people group is a goy. In scripture, most of the time, the scripture refers to goy(im) which are non-Israel people groups. Goyim is plural for Goy. But in one or two places, Israel is also called a nation/goy.  Just because Israel is a nation/goy, does not mean that other goyim/nations are Israel

 

and yet the Hebrew word for gentile gowy also refers to the DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and IRSAEL

01471 gowy {go'-ee} rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee} apparently from the same root as 01465; TWOT -- 326e AV -- nation 374, heathen 143, Gentiles 30, people 11; 558 n m 1) nation, people 1a2) OF DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM 1a3) OF ISRAEL 1b) pf swarm of locusts, other animals (fig. n pr m 1c) Goyim? = "nations"

 

and yet the hebrew word for gentile gowy also refers to the DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM and IRSAEL ( Sorry for repeat but it needs to drummed in)

 

In scripture, most of the time, the scripture refers to goy(im) which are non-Israel people groups. Goyim is plural for Goy. But in one or two places, Israel is also called a nation/goy.  Just because Israel is a nation/goy, does not mean that other goyim/nations are Israel

 
That's not what I'm saying what I'm saying, whenever the words "nation" or "nations" appear in the Bible, its translated as "Gentiles." It means the same thing and is the SAME word. The translators of our Bibles used the word that was best suited for a particular scripture. The problem is we are all  programmed to think that the word"gentile" can never refer to Israelites and vise verse but yet as we can see the definition of "Gentiles" in Strong's Concordance (#01471) INCLUDED the physical seed-line of Abraham and Israel with non-Hebrew people. 
 
To deny this is simply one who does not want to seek the truth or refuse to accept the truth.
 
With regards to your interpretation Concerning Peter's visit to the house of Cornelius
 
You need to clearly define which "gentiles" are being addressed here in the verses you provided as either Ethnos or Hellen?
 
Acts 10:45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. (Ethnos or Hellen?)
 
Acts 11:17 Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?” 18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.” (Ethnos or Hellen?)
 
Acts 13:47  For so the Lord has commanded us,

‘I have placed You as a light for the Gentiles, (Ethnos or Hellen?)

That You may bring salvation to the end of the earth.’” 

 

 

You still don't get it at all.

 

When Goy is used, which is of course in the OT, it is not always translated as Gentiles. Goy means nations or people groups. When it is written in singular, it is mostly translated as nation or people. When it is written in plural form, goyim, the translation depends on context. If goyim refers to people who are not Israel, it is translated 'Gentiles'. If Israel and other nations are being spoken about, it is translated as nations or peoples. So the translation depends on context, to know which groups of people are being referenced. Basically, your statement is wrong.  

 

Ethnos or Hellen? Your are reading more into words then are there. It is very clear in Acts 13, what is being said.

 

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

But let's walk thru this a bit. Paul and Barnabas had spoken to people who were in  synagogue. Jews/Israel enter the synagogue, and Gentiles stand in the back or listen from outside. They are there addressing children of Israel/Jews, with Gentiles listening on. They state that the words of God concerning the Messiah should be spoken to the children of Israel/Jews first, and then they spoke to the Gentiles. This is very very simple. In scripture, there are Jews/Israel and there are people who are not Israel, the Gentiles. It was prophesied in the OT, that the light of the Messiah would go out to the Gentiles (non-Israel). This is the fulfillment. The OT also states that since Israel was disobedient, God would form a people (nation) out of people who are not a people (diverse people grouped together who are not rightfully a nation). These people will make Israel jealous. Since Israel is to be jealous by a people who are not Israel.

 

Weren't you just a few days ago, asking about mid-Acts dispensationalism? That hyper separates Israel/Jews from the church into a separate covenant. Now it appears you are promoting Two House theology which confuses Israel again by saying the church is actually physical Israel.         

 

 

I'm afraid your ignoring the fact the word "gentile" in hebrew was used for Israelites, I've showed you this. Why do you ignore this?

 

It is very important if we are to understand the difference between the two meanings in the Greek translations of "gentile" as I believe the bible does not waste words or meanings, so if "HELLEN" is used only 27 times in the bible do you not think there is a reason for this? or that Paul would use Ethnos and Hellen interchangeably just because? I'm afriad I can not accept that answer.

 

Hence why its important for us to first clarify this? What is a "gentile"

 

Let me show you 

 

Roman 2:14-15, Paul states that the Gentiles do BY NATURE the things contained in the law, and that they were showing the works of the law "written in their hearts" : "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, BY NATURE do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them." This passage also states that their CONSCIENCE was bearing witness of this fact.

 

WHO were these Gentiles? 

 

Jeremiah 31:31: "Behold, the days are coming, says YEHOVAH, when I will make a new covenant with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL and with the house of Judah --"

 

Hebrews 8:10: "For this is the COVENANT that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."

 

 

Hebrews 8:8: "Because finding fault with them, He says: 'Behold, the days are coming, says YEHOVAH, when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL and with the house of Judah --" 

 

These "gentiles" are clearly the dispersed Israelites who come out of the house of Israel

 

further evidence please look at Heb 8:10 "MY PEOPLE" this statement ONLY applies to ISRAEL since these are the "PEOPLE" the covenant was made with and belonged to. DID you also notice that the new covenant was made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah?

 

Yet you say arnt I reading more into this? when your reading more into the gentiles somehow actually refer to "NON-ISRAELITE" races??? when you dont even consider which "gentile" is actuslly being referred to?

 

Please connect the dots

Romans 2:14-15 (GENTILE - Dispersed Israelites  - ETHNOS) + (HOUSE of ISRAEL) + (MY LAW in their Hearts) = Israelite

Heb 8:10 (House of Israel) + (my Law in their Hearts) + (My People) = Israelite

 

Its the same verse, Romans 2:14 -15 is a copy of Heb 8:10 its the same verse

 

It is pointless to debate scriptures if we can rightfully and correctly what is a "gentile"

 

mid-Acts dispensationalism?

Your confusing me with someone else, I dont believe in dispensationalism or replacement theology

 

 

The house of Israel and the house of Judah both together, make up the nation of Israel. Not Gentiles. The house of Israel are Israel, not members of other nations. Members of the former house of Israel were present in Judea at the time of Jesus and Paul. So, you are reading your theology into scripture, rather then taking the plain meaning, which is very very clear. God always planned on including the Gentiles in the New Covenant. 

 

The NT clearly says that being a physical child of Israel does not mean a person is saved. The NT says that having Abraham as a physical forefather does not guarantee salvation. It appears that you are claiming that those who are saved are physical children of Abraham and Jacob (Israel), which goes against clear scripture, both OT and NT.  

 

Two House is a form of replacement theology thru identity theft. You are stealing the identity of those who were members of the 10 of the tribes and replacing them with Gentiles believers. You are falsifying the identity of the Gentiles, who God prophesied would be drawn to the Messiah, and will make Israel jealous. Usually replacement theology tries to replace the children of Israel by claiming to a status of the new spiritual Israel. You are claiming that you and all Christians are physically Israel, when you are not physically Israel, but claiming real children of Israels identity.

 

Very simply,

 

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    

Partial blindness has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles come in. You have the Gentiles who come in being Israel. That is not scriptural.

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Guest shiloh357
OH so Israel is barred from salvation now and yet you study an Israelite book? so we back to Israel is only a vehicle now? Tell me something how do you think God would feel about you speaking about his wife like that?

 

I never said anything of the sort.  I said that God didn't choose Israel for salvation.  I didn't say that Israel can't be saved or that Israel is barred from salvation.  That is a lie you are telling on me.  God called Israel, chose them for service.  All men are able to be saved if they obey the Gospel.  

 

 

Jesus did not say that God only draws certain people to Him.

um... if he is drawing someone, then he is choosing someone in order to be drawn to him...an elected individual

 

But the error of YOUR teaching is that God has selected out some for salvation and not others.  The Bible NEVER says that.  You are teaching a lie.

 

 

 

but it never says that God chooses who will or will not be saved

Please provide me scripture for this...you also make out God is incapable to make decisions that he feels is justified and righteous? You also forget the Judgement at the end of age in Rev

 

The Bible says that God is not willing that any should perish but that all men should come to repentance.  John 3:16 read plainly, and not with shades of your false teaching, says that Jesus died for the whole world, that's everyone. 

 

Also please provide me your answer to your contradiction to the verses I provided to you earlier.

 

I haven't spoken any contradictions.  You are simply misrepresenting what I say.

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Qnts2

 

Please reread what I just said....get this thought of this 2 house doctrine out your head that you think i'm trying to talk about....I'm not...now clear your mind... I am simply trying to identify "gentiles" which one is a "israelite Gentile" and which one is a "non-israelite Gentile"

The Bible makes no such distinctions between Gentiles.  Your interpretation of the Bible is sloppy.

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Qnts2

 

Please reread what I just said....get this thought of this 2 house doctrine out your head that you think i'm trying to talk about....I'm not...now clear your mind... I am simply trying to identify "gentiles" which one is a "israelite Gentile" and which one is a "non-israelite Gentile"

 

There is no such thing as an 'Israelite Gentile'. Gentile means 'not Israelite'.

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Qnts2

 

Please reread what I just said....get this thought of this 2 house doctrine out your head that you think i'm trying to talk about....I'm not...now clear your mind... I am simply trying to identify "gentiles" which one is a "israelite Gentile" and which one is a "non-israelite Gentile"

 

There is no such thing as an 'Israelite Gentile'. Gentile means 'not Israelite'.

 

 

But yet you ignore 

01471 gowy {go'-ee} rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee} apparently from the same root as 01465; TWOT -- 326e AV -- nation 374, heathen 143, Gentiles 30, people 11; 558 n m 1) nation, people 1a2) OF DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM 1a3) OF ISRAEL 1b) pf swarm of locusts, other animals (fig. n pr m 1c) Goyim? = "nations"

 

Can I please then get the your thoughts on:

Romans 2:14-15 (GENTILE - Dispersed Israelites  - ETHNOS) + (HOUSE of ISRAEL) + (MY LAW in their Hearts) = Israelite

Heb 8:10 (House of Israel) + (my Law in their Hearts) + (My People) = Israelite

 

 

Are the verses the same? if they are not the same can you please explain why they can not be the same?

 

 

I do not ignore the definition of Goy. I think you are misunderstanding the definition. Goy, a Hebrew word, which means nation, or people group. That is any nation or people group. Descendents of Abraham became three main nations (descendents of Isaac, and descendents of Ishmael, plus descendents of Esau) , plus the 'nation' of people called the church. Scripture said Abraham would be the father of nations, goyim is plural. Israelites are a nation/goy. Egyptians are a nation/goy.  etc. In Hebrew, there is no word which directly translates as 'Gentile', so when the translators translated Hebrew to English, whenever it is very clear the the word goyim, (nations), referred to people groups which did not include Israel, they translated to the word, Gentile. They did an excellent job.  

 

Gentiles are not dispersed Israelites. Gentiles are not Israelites of any kind.

 

From Merriam Webster:

 

1gen·tile noun \ˈjen-ˌtī(-ə)l\

: a person who is not Jewish

 
 

 

Moving on to the book of Romans. At that time, many children of Israel/Jews, were living outside of Judea. Rome had a very large population of Jewish people. Some had come to believe on Jesus and had formed an assembly. Gentiles (non-Israelites) were coming to believe on Jesus They were joining the assembly, and being taught by the Jewish Christians.  

 

The Israelites who were living in 'Israel/Judea' were often in conflict with Rome so Rome in general was not happy with the Israelites/Jewish people. In Rome, there was conflict between Jewish people who believed on Jesus and Jewish people who did not believe on Jesus. Rome (Cladius) decided to kick all Jewish people out of Rome around 49 ce, believers and non-believers. Aquilla and Priscilla were among the Jewish believers forced to leave Rome (Acts 18:2). That left the believing Gentiles on their own. While the Jewish believers had lead the church in Rome, suddenly, that fell to the Gentiles. Five years later, the Claudius died and the Jewish people were allowed to return to Rome. The Jewish believers returned and were not exactly welcomed back by the believing Gentiles. Conflicts arose which prompted Paul to write the letter to the Roman church. The letter alternately explains to the Gentiles, the place of the Jewish believers, and explains to the Jewish believers, the place of the Gentiles. There is no place in the book of Romans which calls dispersed Israelites, Gentiles.   

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Just thought I would mention our Statement of Faith here at Worthy for consideration:

We believe in God, the almighty creator of heaven and earth.

We believe in the triunity of God. We believe that God is eternally One, and also eternally the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit — the three being distinct, but not separate. Each Person of the Godhead coexists from everlasting to everlasting.

We believe in the Messiah, Jesus, God’s only begotten son, God come in the flesh. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate. He was crucified, died and buried. On the third day, He rose again. Soon afterward He ascended into heaven. Now He is seated at the right hand of the Father and He will return to judge both the living and the dead and reign for evermore.

We believe all mankind are sinful and are therefore subject to God’s wrath and condemnation.

We believe that everyone is in need of God’s salvation. Mankind is absolutely unable to fulfill the heavy demands of God’s righteousness, holiness and glory. Therefore, God, in sending His Only Begotten Son, has accomplished redemption for us through the shedding of Jesus’ blood. Because of His Son’s death, God has forgiven us of our sins, reconciled us to Himself, and justified us by making Him our righteousness.

We believe that salvation is a gift received by faith alone, in Messiah alone, and is expressed in the individual’s recognition and repentance of sin, and the acceptance of the risen Messiah as Saviour, Lord and God.

We believe in the supreme Lordship of Jesus Christ, before whom every knee in heaven and on earth will bow. And that there is no other name under Heaven by which we can approach the holy throne of God. Jesus Christ is the one and only mediator between God and man.

We believe that immediately upon death, the soul of the believer is absent from the body, and present with the Lord.

We believe in the ongoing work of sanctification by the Holy Spirit after redemption for the purpose of producing life changing fruit — love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and self-control.

We believe that the 66 books of the Canon, from Genesis to Revelation are the exhaustive, inerrant and inspired word of God.

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Qnts2

 

Please reread what I just said....get this thought of this 2 house doctrine out your head that you think i'm trying to talk about....I'm not...now clear your mind... I am simply trying to identify "gentiles" which one is a "israelite Gentile" and which one is a "non-israelite Gentile"

 

There is no such thing as an 'Israelite Gentile'. Gentile means 'not Israelite'.

 

 

But yet you ignore 

01471 gowy {go'-ee} rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee} apparently from the same root as 01465; TWOT -- 326e AV -- nation 374, heathen 143, Gentiles 30, people 11; 558 n m 1) nation, people 1a2) OF DESCENDANTS OF ABRAHAM 1a3) OF ISRAEL 1b) pf swarm of locusts, other animals (fig. n pr m 1c) Goyim? = "nations"

 

Can I please then get the your thoughts on:

Romans 2:14-15 (GENTILE - Dispersed Israelites  - ETHNOS) + (HOUSE of ISRAEL) + (MY LAW in their Hearts) = Israelite

Heb 8:10 (House of Israel) + (my Law in their Hearts) + (My People) = Israelite

 

 

Are the verses the same? if they are not the same can you please explain why they can not be the same?

 

 

I do not ignore the definition of Goy. I think you are misunderstanding the definition. Goy, a Hebrew word, which means nation, or people group. That is any nation or people group. Descendents of Abraham became three main nations (descendents of Isaac, and descendents of Ishmael, plus descendents of Esau) , plus the 'nation' of people called the church. Scripture said Abraham would be the father of nations, goyim is plural. Israelites are a nation/goy. Egyptians are a nation/goy.  etc. In Hebrew, there is no word which directly translates as 'Gentile', so when the translators translated Hebrew to English, whenever it is very clear the the word goyim, (nations), referred to people groups which did not include Israel, they translated to the word, Gentile. They did an excellent job.  

 

Gentiles are not dispersed Israelites. Gentiles are not Israelites of any kind.

 

From Merriam Webster:

 

1gen·tile noun \ˈjen-ˌtī(-ə)l\

: a person who is not Jewish

 
 

 

 

but yet the very term Gowy the hebrew word Gentile was used and its the exact same translation of it from hebrew to greek of ethnos...I'm afriad the english translators actually did a very poor job of the translations.

 

Ethnos and Gowy are the same translation however Hellen and Gowy is clearly different

 

I also see your confusion hense why the english translation is not done a great job.

 

Israelites where not jewish... Judah was jewish... the other 12 tribes where not jewish but Israelites (SAME RACIALLY LET ME MAKE THAT CLEAR - Im not talking 2 house doctrine, the are all the same people israelites pure blood)...Jesus was Jewish racially and geographically. However who ever was born out the tribe of Judah and belonging to the other tribes could not be called a jew.

 

 the word Jew in the Hebrew is Strong's Concordance #3064, Yehuwdiy, patron from 3063; aJehudite, descendent of Jehudah (Judah).

 

 

Israelites are all children of Israel. Babylon conquered the children of Israel in the land called Judea. When the children of Israel were dispersed by Babylon, they were called Jews by the Babylonians, from Judea. Some of all 12 tribes had lived in Judea, and all 12 were referred to a 'Jews'. You are trying to make a distinction which did not exist. Only Two House/British Israelism etc, try to make the distinction that the term Jews only applies to the tribe of Judah. Judea was so named because Judah was the largest tribe in Judea, but some of all tribes lived in Judea, and were nicknamed Jews by the Babylonians. Paul, a Benjamite called himself a Jew. And that is in scripture.

 

You are attempting to make a distinction which is false. Plus, translation by Concordance is not the best way to go. Actually, it is an invalid way to translate. A Concordance uses existing translations. It takes the original language and offers the words the translators chose to use. The translators chose the words based on their knowledge of the original language, the grammar, and the context in that sentence or chapter. The concordance offers all of the words the translator chose to use, but the translations are not interchangable, as the person using the concordance does not know the grammar, variations or context of the original word in the original language. Translation by concordance is pretty useless.       

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As this discussion continues, please do not "read into" another persons statements and criticize them for something they have not said. If you need clarification, ask, do accuse. Also keep the Terms of Service in mind.
 

Abuse of other posters is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, name calling, insulting, harassing, threatening or in any way invading the privacy of another poster.

Debate the subject, not the person. It is possible to disagree about a doctrine or subject under discussion without insulting the person with whom you are debating. Also remember that the fact that a person disagrees with you does not mean they are attacking you as a person. Respect each other in the love of God! This is the main reason that threads get stopped, shut down, and even deleted! Users that cannot respect others will be banned. (Lev. 19:18)

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Qnts2

 

"You are attempting to make a distinction which is false"

 

Then please explain to me the distinction between these two verses

 

Roman 2:14-15, Paul states that the Gentiles do BY NATURE the things contained in the law, and that they were showing the works of the law "written in their hearts" : "For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, BY NATURE do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them." This passage also states that their CONSCIENCE was bearing witness of this fact.

 

Hebrews 8:10: "For this is the COVENANT that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."

 

Heb 8:10 seems to be a prophecy which Romans 2:14-15 seems to be fulfilling

 

lets break it down Heb 8:10 God says he will put his laws in there minds and write it on their hearts, Romans 2:14-15 confirms this the law is written in their hearts and in their minds  because they seem to have conscience to this fact

 

next these "gentiles" seem to be BY NATURE doing the things contained in the torah, now how would a greek racially born, racially non israelite know the nature of the torah? There is only one group of people who alone know the nature of the torah and thats the only people on the planet who received the nature of the torah from God in the first place and thats the Israelites, he didnt give it to anyone else?

 

You and I, well specifically me non racially non  Israelite can only know the nature of the law by studying the bible...these so called "gentiles" already knew the nature of the law.

 

This is a covenant that God seems to make with only the house of Israel...I dont see gentiles forming part of this covenant...therefore if we take the term or understanding and ignore as you suggest the evidence to the terminology "gentiles"  then Romans 2:14-15 contradicts with the prophecy of Heb 8:10

 

However if we do not ignore or accept the evidence put forward on the use of the terminology of "gentiles" then therefore Romans 2:14-15 does not contradict with the prophecy of Heb 8:10

 

I will not accept that the very words Ethnos and Hellen are to be used interchangeably when ever Paul or any of the Saints uses Hellen, when ever they feel like it and has no meaning or no difference to each other.

 

There is a reason "hellen" it was used 27 times in the bible, God does not waste words or meanings. We must accept these.

 

Because if you can not accept this, then the only logical step is for us to accept the only way a "gentile" can be part of the covenant is then to become a spiritiual Israel in order to recieve the gift that is promised ONLY to the House of Israel in Heb 8:10... you are trying so hard to trash other doctrines of two houses and britian/israel but the ironic thing is your actually promoting it, simply because you will not unprogramme yourself what your understanding of the use  of the different terminologies relating to "gentiles" are.0

 

I have already given verses from the OT which show the God always intended to include Gentiles in the Messianic blessings, so it is improper to believe that a person must be Israel (house of Israel and house of Judah) in order to be included in the New Covenant. The NT clearly shows that the Jewish believers realized that Gentiles are fully included. This was due to the evidence that those of Cornelius' house received the promise of the Holy Spirit. 

 

Romans 2 also shows the inclusion of Gentiles. 'For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, BY NATURE do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS'. The indwelling Holy Spirit is Who writes the laws on a persons heart at the point of salvation. With the indwelling Holy Spirit, a person has the 'mind of Christ' leading them.The children of Israel did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit guiding them to live a life obedient to God so were dependent on reading the OT, and being taught the OT. The moment a Gentile (Jews as well) is saved, the Holy Spirit changes the person, as well as guides and teaches, so this change causes a born again believer to grow and to naturally start to do what God and have the desire to obey God.

 

Ok, now for the Greek words. Ethnos means nation which we have already covered. It can refer to the nation of Israel but usually refers to nations which are people groups which are not Israel, like Egyptians are a nation.

 

Hellene can be a bit more complicated. It literally means Greek. In the Roman empire, the language used by the people was Greek. The various Greek philosophies were culturally popular among the Gentiles. So Greek is a term used for Gentiles.

 

There is an exception in the use of the term Hellene and to understand that exception, used twice in the NT, I need to explain Jewish culture. In Jewish culture, the Mosaic law influences just about every thing in a Jewish persons life. In modern Jewish life, there is an expression about a Jewish person living a 'Jewish lifestyle'. A Jewish person who lives a Jewish lifestyle is a Jewish person who keeps the Mosaic law to the fullest extent possible. Living scattered, Jewish people for over 2000 years. Living alongside Gentiles, and with  the Gentile majority society, there is a certain level of pressure to alter from a purely Jewish lifestyle, and incorporate non-Jewish practices. When a Jewish person abandons parts of the Jewish lifestyle, adopting some of the practices and thoughts of the Gentile culture around them, there are slang expressions within the Jewish community for Jewish people who 'live more like Gentiles'. This expressions that I grew up with were expressed in the Yiddish language but essentially were either 'Gentilish Jew' or Gentilish headed. Gentilish headed meant the Jewish person thought per like a Gentile. In Jesus time, some Jewish people adopted Greek philosophy and allowed the Greek philosophy to meld with Jewish philosophy, which altered they was they saw things and practiced Judaism. In that day, a Jewish person who lived outside of Jerusalem and Judea, in larger Gentile communities was more likely to adopt and integrate some Greek philosophy. Like today, the Jewish people who lived a pure Jewish lifestyle and maintained a purely Jewish philosophy referred to those Jews who adopted Greek philosophy and blended it into their life as a Jew were called Greeks. Similar to todays expressions of Gentile-ish Jew or Gentile-ish headed. Throughout the years, in the Jewish community, Orthodox vs more 'liberal' segments have had conflicts where the more traditional have had a term which expresses the difference between those who live a purely Jewish lifestyle and those who adopted ideas influencing their practices from the culture around them.

 

So, Hellene is almost always Gentile, but in two instances in the book of Acts, before the gospel fully went out to the Gentiles, there are times when the term Hellene is used to refer to Jewish people who were living outside of the Jerusalem/Judea area, and had adopted some of the Gentile Greek philosophy melding it with how they lived as Jews. Due to the terminology used in the Jewish community, Hellene is a Greek word which must be watched based on context. If the context does not include Gentiles, then it can be referring to more liberal Jews who have taken on the surrounding culture to some extent.

 

Just a further bit of information. Greek philosophies retained popularity for centuries, and although not as common, are still studied and read today. In the 12th century, a very popular and respected Rabbi studied the Greek philosophies, and wrote a book called 'The Guide for the Perplexed' which used Greek philosopy melded into Jewish philosophy. It was rejected by the Jewish teachers of that time, but is still studied today, and has received more acceptance.            

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