hmbld Posted May 8, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Anyone care to discuss the scripture posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Anyone care to discuss the scripture posted? That would be a good idea. Why didn't any of us think of that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmbld Posted May 8, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Lol. I'm not understanding the wording. I usually go to like a Gill commentary, anyone care to comment on the meaning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances. Colossians 2:18-20 I went back through the whole chapter to try to get a better look at this in context. The overall message isn't that difficult to understand. It is a warning against false teachers that would lead you astray if they are able. It is a warning not to let that happen. I did notice a couple of interesting things in the passage. Here is verse 18, we are told not to let any man beguile us. You find the same word used back in verse 4 where it says "And this I say, lest any man beguile you with enticing words. The passage is telling us to continue to walk in faith in Christ Jesus. We have been circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, as opposed to the circumcision of the law. The old man is dead, and we are to walk in the newness of life that comes through Jesus, not trusting in the law.  Another interesting thing I found in the passage was this. Verse 15 says, "And having spoiled principalities, and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it." The reason I find this interesting is because of the text we are examining. It says, "Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels." When I think of principalities and powers, I think of the spirit realm. Then in the text, it mentions the "worshipping of angels." So what does this mean? Again the overall meaning is pretty clear. Don't be deceived into looking at the law for your salvation, and the temporal physical circumcision, but trust in Christ, and don't let anyone beguile or trick you into losing your reward. These verses are not quite so simple, because on the surface, it appears they are telling us we should worship angels, and we know that is not the case. John bowed down to an angel and was rebuked for it. We are only to bow down and worship God.  Let no man beguile you of your reward.  Again, this goes hand in hand with "And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words." Pretty simple. Don't let anyone deceive you and steal your reward. This could be anything from eternal life to individual rewards at the final judgment.  in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels.  Perhaps the words, "in a voluntary humility" should be included with the first part rather than here? It would then say "Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility." That seems right to me. That leaves by itself...  and worshipping of angels.  I admit that I could be wrong, but my opinion is that worshipping of angels would be a deception. It could be part of that beguiling or tricking us to go in the wrong direction.  intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up in his fleshly mind.  That to me would be the deceivers. They are intruding into things they have not seen. Remember how Jesus spoke of how unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. That is because the natural mind cannot see into a spiritual Kingdom. It can only see what the natural eyes can see. These deceivers can't understand the truth, yet they are full of pride, and see themselves as teachers. They are really blind leaders of the blind, leading their followers into the ditch.  And not holding the head,  Who is the head? Jesus Christ is our head. Lets go back to verses 8 through 10.  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.  There are those words principality and power again. Jesus and the Father are one, and Jesus is the head of everyone and everything. He alone is worthy of our worship and praise, and he is our head. The deceivers are not holding to Jesus. They don't know him.  from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered  We are the body of Christ, and the true body that is holding to the Lord speaks the truth. They minister the truth.  and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.  If we hold to Jesus, we grow in the truth. We increase in knowledge. We increase in wisdom. We grow in our relationship with God.  Wherefore If ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances.  Here is one of those things people have difficulty understanding about the law and grace. Those who are in Christ have died to the world, and are a new creature. They walk in the Spirit. They don't need laws on tables of stones. Those who need laws on tables of stone are those who don't walk in the Spirit, and those who don't hold to Jesus. The law is for transgressors. It is for those who walk after the flesh. How can those who are dead in Christ continue to sin? The old man is dead, and they are born again. For that reason, and since we have had a spiritual circumcision, we no longer have to be concerned with the ceremonial aspects of the law of Moses.  Anyway that is my take. Hopefully this will spark more discussions on the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted May 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 8, 2014 I'm not offended. It doesn't matter if I think it wrong or not to discuss dreams and visions. I simply posted scripture; let everyone receive their own interpretation/revelation. GOD, after all, is the ONE who brought the verses to my attention.My interpretation is that we are not to worship the angels which are ministering spirits of God. Angels themselves are only created beings in whom God created. The angels minister on behalf of God's children to bring about his will in the affairs of this life we live on earth. It is important to understand this so we do not worship the creation instead of the CREATOR. Especially when being shown things in the spiritual realm. While angels are awesome and powerful creatures they are not God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted May 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 8, 2014  Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances. Colossians 2:18-20 I went back through the whole chapter to try to get a better look at this in context. The overall message isn't that difficult to understand. It is a warning against false teachers that would lead you astray if they are able. It is a warning not to let that happen. I did notice a couple of interesting things in the passage. Here is verse 18, we are told not to let any man beguile us. You find the same word used back in verse 4 where it says "And this I say, lest any man beguile you with enticing words. The passage is telling us to continue to walk in faith in Christ Jesus. We have been circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, as opposed to the circumcision of the law. The old man is dead, and we are to walk in the newness of life that comes through Jesus, not trusting in the law.  Another interesting thing I found in the passage was this. Verse 15 says, "And having spoiled principalities, and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it." The reason I find this interesting is because of the text we are examining. It says, "Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels." When I think of principalities and powers, I think of the spirit realm. Then in the text, it mentions the "worshipping of angels." So what does this mean? Again the overall meaning is pretty clear. Don't be deceived into looking at the law for your salvation, and the temporal physical circumcision, but trust in Christ, and don't let anyone beguile or trick you into losing your reward. These verses are not quite so simple, because on the surface, it appears they are telling us we should worship angels, and we know that is not the case. John bowed down to an angel and was rebuked for it. We are only to bow down and worship God.  Let no man beguile you of your reward.  Again, this goes hand in hand with "And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words." Pretty simple. Don't let anyone deceive you and steal your reward. This could be anything from eternal life to individual rewards at the final judgment.  in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels.  Perhaps the words, "in a voluntary humility" should be included with the first part rather than here? It would then say "Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility." That seems right to me. That leaves by itself...  and worshipping of angels.  I admit that I could be wrong, but my opinion is that worshipping of angels would be a deception. It could be part of that beguiling or tricking us to go in the wrong direction.  intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up in his fleshly mind.  That to me would be the deceivers. They are intruding into things they have not seen. Remember how Jesus spoke of how unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven. That is because the natural mind cannot see into a spiritual Kingdom. It can only see what the natural eyes can see. These deceivers can't understand the truth, yet they are full of pride, and see themselves as teachers. They are really blind leaders of the blind, leading their followers into the ditch.  And not holding the head,  Who is the head? Jesus Christ is our head. Lets go back to verses 8 through 10.  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.  There are those words principality and power again. Jesus and the Father are one, and Jesus is the head of everyone and everything. He alone is worthy of our worship and praise, and he is our head. The deceivers are not holding to Jesus. They don't know him.  from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered  We are the body of Christ, and the true body that is holding to the Lord speaks the truth. They minister the truth.  and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.  If we hold to Jesus, we grow in the truth. We increase in knowledge. We increase in wisdom. We grow in our relationship with God.  Wherefore If ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances.  Here is one of those things people have difficulty understanding about the law and grace. Those who are in Christ have died to the world, and are a new creature. They walk in the Spirit. They don't need laws on tables of stones. Those who need laws on tables of stone are those who don't walk in the Spirit, and those who don't hold to Jesus. The law is for transgressors. It is for those who walk after the flesh. How can those who are dead in Christ continue to sin? The old man is dead, and they are born again. For that reason, and since we have had a spiritual circumcision, we no longer have to be concerned with the ceremonial aspects of the law of Moses.  Anyway that is my take. Hopefully this will spark more discussions on the OP.      Butero very good explaination thanks for expounding upon the scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted May 8, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 306 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,130 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,806 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 8, 2014 Blessings Parker     Of course I forgive you,Brother Rick...................yes, I was offended and my heart is filled with joy that you extended an apology to me,it means the world to me when we display love & compassion.....................thank you & God's Blessings on us all!     May I just add,I hope you don't think I (or anyone else)was harping on the situation................or questioning your motives or intent,you have been around for a long time ,Brother..........we know you have no malice in your heart,I think it safe to say that most of us were very confused by your OP & just wanted to be clear,,,,it seems we all had some difficulties with communication but once you explained it was so easy to see what you meant.     Personally ,there have been many times when a Scripture just sticks in my head & I know it must be said & who its for but I don't know why....it is between God & the recipient..............& so we move in obedience.     Well,thanks again & I thank Brother Butero for his defending me ,,,,,,understand that he does know me better than most so of course he would stand up for me,knowing I would never use profanity,,,,,,,hopefully we will know each other as well one day...........as we are united by our Faith in our Lord & Savior,Glory to God                                                                                                                         With love-in Christ,Kwik  Butero....awesome study of the Scripture & the context in which it was spoken...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmbld Posted May 8, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Thanks Butero and Openly Curious. The wording on worshipping angels was not making sense to me. Gill commentary did not help either. Everything you explained did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Blessings Parker     Of course I forgive you,Brother Rick...................yes, I was offended and my heart is filled with joy that you extended an apology to me,it means the world to me when we display love & compassion.....................thank you & God's Blessings on us all!     May I just add,I hope you don't think I (or anyone else)was harping on the situation................or questioning your motives or intent,you have been around for a long time ,Brother..........we know you have no malice in your heart,I think it safe to say that most of us were very confused by your OP & just wanted to be clear,,,,it seems we all had some difficulties with communication but once you explained it was so easy to see what you meant.     Personally ,there have been many times when a Scripture just sticks in my head & I know it must be said & who its for but I don't know why....it is between God & the recipient..............& so we move in obedience.     Well,thanks again & I thank Brother Butero for his defending me ,,,,,,understand that he does know me better than most so of course he would stand up for me,knowing I would never use profanity,,,,,,,hopefully we will know each other as well one day...........as we are united by our Faith in our Lord & Savior,Glory to God                                                                                                                         With love-in Christ,Kwik  Butero....awesome study of the Scripture & the context in which it was spoken...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts