other one Posted May 21, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,788 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2014 something to ponder::: Rev 22:3-5 The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light . And they will reign for ever and ever. NIV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 ....God gave us the mental endowments to come to a knowledge of Him.... ~ Why So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17 Yes “Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6 (NIV) Yes He Did Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Acts 17:11 (ESV) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted May 21, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2014 other one - something to ponder::: I wonder if scripture would be as exciting if every detail was in fact clearly and beyond question laid out before us, probably not. Just as His mercies are new every morn so scripture reveals new truths, thoughts, etc. with each reading. As I've noted elsewhere we can discuss, argue, and debate "till the cows come home" but the ultimate truth will have to wait for a time for each peripheral subject. Discussions of Genesis 1, pre-trib/mid-trib/post-trib, effusion/immersion, gifts/cessation, etc. are valuable in that there is a heightened sense of searching the Word, and yet we still may come to opposing and various views. Perhaps therein lies the value of not having everything detailed before us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I should be pointed out that one feature of Genesis that most people accept on its face which speaks against the Big Bang occurring at "Let there be light" is that to most people, the earth already exists but is shrouded in darkness and is void. The Big Bang is supposed to give us the origin of the earth, but to reconcile that with the Bible is impossible because the Bible says that the Spirit of God is already hovering over the earth prior to when some people are claiming the Bible depicts the Big Bang occurring. Essentially, it would mean that the earth would have to pre-exist the Big Bang in Gen. 1:2 prior to the "Big Bang" occuring in v. 3 with God saying "let their be light." You can believe the Bible or you can believe the Big Bang. But you cannot have both. Stop buying into Liberal theology that is predicated on a rejection of doctrinal purity and a rejection of the authority and inerrancy of the Word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted May 22, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2014 Shiloh357 - Essentially, it would mean that the earth would have to pre-exist the Big Bang in Gen. 1:2 prior to the "Big Bang" occuring in v. 3 with God saying "let their be light." Ahhh, we agree, almost. Though I have always viewed from verse 3 on specifically from the perspective of the earth, and no "gap theory". However, I include verse one in that God created the heavens and the earth, with verse 2 as the beginning of the earthly account. One more however....that verse one is silent on the how therefore it is not beyond reason that God's thought initiated a BB of sorts. There exists no "doctrinal purity" as to the exact how of creation. Obviously God did not deem details and specifics of great import, leaving it to us to attempt to plumb the depths of His creation. Reasoned perspectives, views, or interpretations in no way negate one's belief in God's word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Shiloh357 - Essentially, it would mean that the earth would have to pre-exist the Big Bang in Gen. 1:2 prior to the "Big Bang" occuring in v. 3 with God saying "let their be light." Ahhh, we agree, almost. Though I have always viewed from verse 3 on specifically from the perspective of the earth, and no "gap theory". However, I include verse one in that God created the heavens and the earth, with verse 2 as the beginning of the earthly account. One more however....that verse one is silent on the how therefore it is not beyond reason that God's thought initiated a BB of sorts. There exists no "doctrinal purity" as to the exact how of creation. Obviously God did not deem details and specifics of great import, leaving it to us to attempt to plumb the depths of His creation. Reasoned perspectives, views, or interpretations in no way negate one's belief in God's word. I am addressing the subject raised by the OP about the Big Bang beginning with "let their be light. The Bible says the luminaries. If God wanted to say that they simply became visible on day four, there are words in Hebrew to say exactly that. But he didn't say that. So i will trust the plain reading of the Word of God the way it is intended to read. You are free to trust in the theories of sinful men if you choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted May 22, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2014 Shiloh357 - So i will trust the plain reading of the Word of God the way it is intended to read. You are free to trust in the theories of sinful men if you choose. Are there not words in Hebrew that would have stated exactly that the "light" was God's glory? Since all have sinned are not all creation interpretations, given the lack of "scientific" detail, theories of sinful men? Further, why are such theories, having no salvation impact and with God remaining central, necessarily sinful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Are there not words in Hebrew that would have stated exactly that the "light" was God's glory? God was the only source of light in Genesis 1:3 No luminaries existed. The only light he emits is that of His own glory. I don't need the word "Shekinah" for that to be true. Since all have sinned are not all creation interpretations, given the lack of "scientific" detail, theories of sinful men? I am not offering an "interpretation" of creation. I am simply relying on what the Bible plainly says. You are the one seeking to interpret the Bible in the light of the theories of sinful man. That is the kind of liberal theology we should all be opposed to. Further, why are such theories, having no salvation impact and with God remaining central, necessarily sinful? Because they erode the authority and inerrancy of Scripture by contradicting what Scripture says, they put the theories of sinful men above the Bible. The Bible becomes servant to the reader/mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted May 22, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2014 (edited) Gen 1:1-2 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV) Gen 1:6-9 6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. (KJV) I'm still amazed at how many still do not recognize the simplicity of God's Word on this matter, not being able to see how those waters existed in connection with an existing earth underneath that was first created all the way from Gen.1:1. The "face of the deep" is about those waters overspread upon the whole earth at Gen.1:2, which is why God's Spirit moved upon the "face of the waters" at that point. Genesis 1:1 is the first creation of the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:2 is a destruction of the earth's surface by those waters spread over all of the earth. The translation "without form, and void" is not an accurate translation from Hebrew tohuw va bohuw. Genesis 1:1 is God's original perfect creation; Genesis 1:2 is its destruction and then the beginning of a renewing, with which the fossil record agrees. Thus Genesis is not a theological treatise, it is the Truth, and true science will always agree with God's Truth in His Word. It's man's pseudo-science like evolution, etc., that will always disagree with it. Theology is man's thing too, and does not always agree with God's Word, simply because man's theology is based a lot on tradition (for example, a group of men agree on an interpretation, and then proclaim that as the truth, and it is 'accepted' as the truth, handed down from generation to generation. It does not always mean it's the actual truth in God's Word, which is why as God reveals more of His Truth their traditions have to be modified). Edited May 22, 2014 by Salty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Genesis 1:1 is the first creation of the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:2 is a destruction of the earth's surface by those waters spread over all of the earth. The translation "without form, and void" is not an accurate translation from Hebrew tohuw va bohuw. Genesis 1:1 is God's original perfect creation; Genesis 1:2 is its destruction and then the beginning of a renewing, with which the fossil record agrees. That is false and the Hebrew text of Gen. 1:2 will not allow for that "gap theory" that you are promoting. Gen. 1:1 is a synopsis of what is to follow. Gen. 1:2 to the end of the chapter is an expansion on of verse 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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