Tolken Posted May 28, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2014 Cobalt1959 - Evolution would be a pretty clumsy way for an all-powerful God to go about creating it. Why? Again, a plain reading of Genesis 1 states processes, any aversion to the term "evolution" does not diminish that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted May 28, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2014 Cobalt1959 - I'm still waiting to see you illustrate that process you are talking about from the book itself. Since you are convinced as to what the process is, it should be very simple for you to show it to us, scripturally. Gen. 1:24 "And God said,'Let the land produce living creatures'.....And it was so." Clearly then the bible speaks of mediate creation, a process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 I'm still waiting to see you illustrate that process you are talking about from the book itself. Since you are convinced as to what the process is, it should be very simple for you to show it to us, scripturally. Gen. 1:24 "And God said,'Let the land produce living creatures'.....And it was so." Clearly then the bible speaks of mediate creation. ~ Clearly Then And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. Genesis 1:24 The Bible Speaks Of The Power Of God's Words So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isaiah 55:11 And Not Of The Philosophies Of Men Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Shiloh357 - An omniscient God who creates perfectly has no need for such an imperfect system like Evolution and would never use it. Perfectly as to His purpose...is A God ordained process as set forth in Genesis 1 imperfect? And is "good" or "very good" mean perfect? Actually that is precisely what they mean. God only has one standard of "good." The word good refers to something complete which cannot be improved upon. God created perfectly and He created everything in a perfect state according to their own kind. God did not use an imperfect system like Evolution. If you believe God used Evolution then you don't know God very well at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Cobalt1959 - I'm still waiting to see you illustrate that process you are talking about from the book itself. Since you are convinced as to what the process is, it should be very simple for you to show it to us, scripturally. Gen. 1:24 "And God said,'Let the land produce living creatures'.....And it was so." Clearly then the bible speaks of mediate creation, a process. You left a part. It says that they were to be after their own kind. That precludes Evolution. Kinds don't evolve into other kinds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Cobalt1959 - Evolution would be a pretty clumsy way for an all-powerful God to go about creating it. Why? Again, a plain reading of Genesis 1 states processes, any aversion to the term "evolution" does not diminish that fact. That is complete and utter nonsense. There are NO processes mentioned, certainly not evolutionary ones. You are trying to pencil into the Bible what isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted May 29, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 29, 2014 Cobalt1959 - I thought you would have something a little more substantial since you spoke on this process with so much confidence. Perhaps a delicate reading of Genesis would be of benefit. "And it was so."...What was so? That the command "Let the land..." was so. When was the command/fiat given..."Let the land ..." Gen. 1:13, "Let the waters..." Gen. 1:20, etc. So please explain how these commands/fiats, the sole creative act, not express processes? The designation of a specific day is paired with a command(s). So there is no denial of "In six days...". Quote - God spoke things into existence as they were designed to be, from that moment. That is not what scripture states...God commands "Let the ..." and that is mediate creation. Further I will answer your question regarding man when we come to some resolve of the general issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted May 29, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 29, 2014 Shiloh357 - That is complete and utter nonsense. There are NO processes mentioned, certainly not evolutionary ones. You are trying to pencil into the Bible what isn't there. Note my answer above to Cobalt1959 and show me where I've used a pencil? So good and very good is perfect? I guess we have different definitions of "perfect". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Shiloh357 - That is complete and utter nonsense. There are NO processes mentioned, certainly not evolutionary ones. You are trying to pencil into the Bible what isn't there. Note my answer above to Cobalt1959 and show me where I've used a pencil? So good and very good is perfect? I guess we have different definitions of "perfect". Yes, I read your response to Cobalt, and like him, I was expecting you to elaborate more on the "processes" you claim that the Bible "clearly" presents in the text. You made a claim and when asked to prove it you can't deliver on it. The truth is that you are making assumptions and that is all really have. Your arguments have no substance and certainly have no truth in them. Yes, you are penciling in "processes" that are simply not there. You are trying write Evolution into the text of Genesis when the very wording of the text (which you of necessity must completely ignore) precludes the possibility of Evolution. You cannot provide any evidence, but you continue to insist that the Bible makes room for Evolution. You simply cling to an impotent, beggardly claim hoping that if you repeat enough times, we will buy into it. The problem is that you don't seem to want to face the fact that when the Bible says that God saw what He had made on the days of creation and said "it is good" it meant that it was as "good as it can be." That is God's standard of good. The Bible says that God made everything perfect and sinless. That is God's standard of good. It wasn't until the fall of man that creation was spoiled. God can't create imperfection so when God created everything, He created them perfect and functionally mature. You still have not dealt with, as far as I can tell, the problem that the creation of man presents for your claim that Evolution is present in Genesis 1. The Bible clearly states that man was created apart from the animal kingdom. Man didn't evolve from a creature that God had previously created. He created man from the dirt and made him in His image. So Genesis 1 precludes man as being the result of Evolution. How does that figure into your position that evolutionary processes are present in Genesis 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolken Posted May 29, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 405 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/27/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 29, 2014 Cobalt1959 - You want to believe evolution over what the Bible says, and you are forcing your personal beliefs onto the text. Obviously there exists no ability to answer "Let the Land..." , the fact that it clearly states mediate creation, and the fact that it imposes a process. Attempting to assert what I "want" to believe hardly addresses the scripture. Further, there is no suggestion on my part to equate darwinsim/neo-darwinism as to the details of the God ordained processes stated in Genesis, other than to allow the use of the term "evolution", though not in the extreme context which you and others choose to impose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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