Love is alive Posted May 22, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 325 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 81 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/22/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1966 Share Posted May 22, 2014 This article seemed to be intereting to me. I know what your are going to say before you say it. (Not another discussion on the Sabbath day.) But you before you make up your minds, you should read the article. I would really like this to be an open discussion. There could possibly be things in this article that you have never considered before. Regardless, please read the article, before commenting and discussing it. I would truly like to have a discussion on this topic , not just people stating their opinions in a scarcastic way. So, what say ye? Again please read the ariticle before commenting, I would truly like an open and honest discussion on the topic! http://www.wnd.com/2014/05/going-viral-the-4th-commandment/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted May 22, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2014 This article seemed to be intereting to me. I know what your are going to say before you say it. (Not another discussion on the Sabbath day.) But you before you make up your minds, you should read the article. I would really like this to be an open discussion. There could possibly be things in this article that you have never considered before. Regardless, please read the article, before commenting and discussing it. I would truly like to have a discussion on this topic , not just people stating their opinions in a scarcastic way. So, what say ye? Again please read the ariticle before commenting, I would truly like an open and honest discussion on the topic! http://www.wnd.com/2014/05/going-viral-the-4th-commandment/ I need to start by saying that the person, Jim Staley, who is arguing in favor of the Sabbath, comes out of Two House teachings, as well as One Law theology, which are both in error, or serious error. Jim's arguments are nothing really new. Jim used to be more moderate in his approach, but recently has become more radical. He carries forward his previous theology but is trying to establish his own new movement which he calls Christian roots as opposed to Hebrew roots. While he says this is the new movement of today, I haven't yet identified the difference between what he is teaching now, vs. the One Law, Two House Hebrew roots. Like most in this movement, he goes back to God resting on the 7th day to justify keeping the Sabbath for Christians. 1. Yes, God rested on the 7th day, but we do not see any command in scripture at that time for people to rest on the 7th day before the one given to Israel. 2.The first time we see this command, it is directed to the children of Israel, leaving Egypt. 3. This command is in the Mosaic law with a severe penalty for violation, and is said to be given to the children of Israel as a sign to them. 4. It is not repeated in the New Covenant, and there is no indication anywhere in scripture that it was given to anyone who is a Gentile, who does not live in the land of Israel, or visiting the land of Israel, so it was not commanded to Gentiles outside of Israel prior to the time of Jesus and is not commanded during or after the time of Jesus. The following verse is during Israel's exodus from Egypt and is the first time there are commands to anyone concerning the Sabbath. Exodus 16:22 Now on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. When all the leaders of the congregation came and told Moses, 23 then he said to them, “This is what the Lord meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning.” 24 So they put it aside until morning, as Moses had ordered, and it did not become foul nor was there any worm in it. 25 Moses said, “Eat it today, for today is a sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the sabbath, there will be [t]none.” The following is one of the actual commands, to the children of Israel, but includes sojourners in the land of Israel, and no Gentile outside of Israel: Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. Often, those who promote the Sabbath, emphasize worship services as part of obeying the Sabbath law. Note that there is no mention of required worship services. This error is more of a modern cultural error. When the law was given, there were no synagogues. Those were both a much later invention and are not mentioned in the OT. Synagogues did not come into practice until the Babylonian captivity. Prior to that time, the only place of worship was the Temple, but for majority of the children of Israel, traveling from their home to the location of the Temple was way to far to be done weekly. So, there were no worship services. On the Sabbath, people stopped work for a day, stayed home and rested. Going to services is not being obedient to the Sabbath law. It is not being disobedient either. For historical purposes, the synagogues were run by the Pharisees, and were places of teaching the people. They were open 7 days a week with 'services'/teaching, 7 days a week. Prayers were also said, but there is no requirement that people go to the synagogues to pray. Prayer in Judaism, occurs daily, and can be done at home, or where ever you want to. Today, in modern Judaism, synagogues are open 7 days a week, for services. Prayers can be done at home or anywhere. The Sabbath service tends to be bigger then the weekly service because people are off work, but it is not considered a requirement to go to Sabbath services. It is considered a good deed to go to any service, any day of the week, but in Judaism, it is not a sin to not attend daily or weekly 7th day services. Penalty for working on the Sabbath. Exodus 31:14 Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. 16 So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.’ Additional requirement of the Sabbath, just for accuracy: Ex. 35:3 You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day.” The Sabbath is a sign between God and the children of Israel Ex 31:17 "It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire-heart Posted May 22, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 93 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 386 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 104 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/02/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/20/1991 Share Posted May 22, 2014 They both made some good points but neither could show enough evidence to convince the other. this is in fact a difficult discussion, should we really drop one of the commandments that say we are to keep the sabbath as a holy day? Jesus after all healed on the sabbath and he is an example for all of us. perhaps in the old ways we were to keep it but Jesus brought in a new covanent-a new way. what do you say to this then? you have been bestowed the power to heal its the sabbath and your going on a walk, You meet a homeless man who is to sick to work and will likely die soon. now because its the sabbath do you say to him im sorry i cant heal you because its the sabbath or do you heal him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 If you have Jesus as your Savior, you are keeping the Sabbath. Jesus is the personification of the Sabbath. Jesus is the Sabbath for the New Testament believer. The Sabbath day observance belongs under the Old Testament economy. In the New Testament economy Jesus is the only Sabbath we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted May 22, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,224 Content Per Day: 3.34 Reputation: 16,647 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 22, 2014 I agree with Shiloh that Christ is our sabbath rest. He abolished the law for Christians who walk in the Spirit. It is still in effect for Jews and for people who are not saved. Gal 4 19-25 clearly teaches that the law is our tutor that brings us to Christ, and that all are confined under sin by it,so that we may know we need Christ. No one can be good enough to go to heaven by keeping the law. Christ fulfilled the law on our behalf so that we can be set free from the law. He took our sinfulness to the cross and died on our behalf, but placed His righteousness on our accounts. So we are the righteousness of God in Christ. It is good for us to rest one day of the week. It is not necessary for salvation. Heb. 4:10 says For He who has entered His rest has ceased from his own works as God did from His. This is speaking of self effort as opposed to allowing Christ do His works in and through us. It includes walking in the Spirit in love, and ceasing from all self effort to be more pleasing to God which is walking in the flesh: this leads to self righteousness and no longer depending on the grace of God--falling from grace. Gal. 5:1-5 I worship God every day of the week but I also believe in meeting with others to worship on one or more days of the week for teaching and encouragement, and to also minister to the needs of others in my local body. It is my custom to do so on Sundays, The Lord's day of resurrection, and on Wednesdays. This does not mean that I stand in judgement of those who worship on Saturday. We are free to follow our consciences on this. But we are never to condemn those with a weaker conscience who think they must worship on Saturday, but we should encourage them to do as they think God is leading them. The same is true of dietary habits, clothing and music they prefer, or any outward thing. Neither should we allow them to condemn us for our freedom. But we who are stronger should not cause our brothers to stumble by imposing our freedom on them. Romans 14:12-23 1 Cor.10:23 Our complete dependance on Christ is all that matters. No Christian who walks in the Spirit can better himself in God's eyes by keeping any part of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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