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Apologetic on Slavery & Rape in the Bible


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1 Peter 2:13-17

King James Version (KJV)

 

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

 

According to this, I'd say to honour what ever anyones respective ruler's opinion is on this topic.

 

Thanks, that is some good scripture to remember. But what about taking the mark of the beast? Would that not be willfully resisting the king (antichrist)?

 

 

It's tough to call.  Does anyone follow this for instance?

 

Matthew 15:4 NLT

For instance, God says, 'Honor your father and mother,' and 'Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.'

 

Also, if authority was always to be followed and never questioned, the Reformation would have never happened.  William Tyndale got murdered by the Church for translating the bible into his native tongue.  It makes people today cringe to think of this but who are we to say anything?  The church was the authority and decided that was his punishment.  He was not in the right according to the obeying authority bible verses of the OT and NT.  It seems we should resist the mark of the beast as the scripture directly tells us not to get it and threatens a bad punishment if you get it.

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This is laughable.  You just repeated what Bonky said - everything has a first cause except for what you don't want to have first cause.  You just tossed up a dog-spine strawman...

 

:thumbsup:

 

First Cause

 

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

 

Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

 

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Genesis 3:17-19

 

Last Cause

 

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

 

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Corinthians 15:21-23

 

And The End Of It All

 

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

 

And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

 

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

 

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:26-29

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The Bible was firmly against forced slavery.

 

Exodus 21:16 "Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death."

Exodus 21: 20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished."

Exodus 21:26 "If a man strikes his servant's eye, or his maid's eye, and destroys it, he shall let him go free for his eye's sake."

Exodus 21:27 "If he strikes out his male servant's tooth, or his female servant's tooth, he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."

Deuteronomy 23:15 "If slaves should escape from their masters and take refuge with you, you must not hand them over to their masters."

Deuteronomy 23:16 "Let him live among you wherever he likes and in whatever town he chooses. Do not oppress him."

Deuteronomy 15:12 "If a fellow Hebrew, a man or a woman, sells himself to you and serves you six years, in the seventh year you must let him go free."

A man could enter a contract for several years as a slave but had to be released at the end. Taking someone as a slave forcefully was clearly against what The Bible taught. Beating a slave was also illegal and meant that the slave could go free. On the seventh year, a slave had to be set free, their contract fulfilled.

Atheists like to ignore these verses though.

 

Not to be nit picking but isn't it true that only Jews were let go after 7 years? [EX 21:2]  I didn't think that applied to non-Jews [Leviticus 25:45-46].  Also, it was illegal to outright kill a slave, but beating them wasn't what was wrong.  Let's take a look at one of the verses you mention:

 

Exodus 21: 20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished."

 

....and the slave DIES as a direct result...

 

Look at the very next verse, 21:21

 

But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.

 

 

It isn't saying that beating a slave is wrong, it's saying beating one outright to the point where the slave dies right away.  If I'm not mistaken, if the slave dies after a few days they would assume that the master didn't intend the kill the slave and the master was off the hook, no punishment.  

 

 

Disagreed. The Jubile for Hebrews was 7 years (Exodus 21) but there was a separate 50-year Jubile in Leviticus 25:8 that applied to everyone and freed all slaves regularly. And the word in Exodus 21:21 does not mean "survives" it means "recovers" or "continues" as translated by the KJV and NIV. The Hebrew word being translated is 'amad.'

 

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/amad.html

 

Exodus 21:23-27, just a few verses later, makes clear that the penalty for killing others was the same harm done, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, so a master who killed his servant would be punished with death. It also makes clear that even minor harm resulting in deformity was to result in complete freedom from service. Thus Exodus 21:21 can only be referring to bruising that resulted in temporary damage not permanent injury.

 

My complete analysis of the slavery issue will be here:

http://www.bereawiki.com/wiki/Slavery

Edited by Jzyehoshua
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"Atheist" originally stated in attack to Christian values,

 

Comment 1:

 

The Bible did say things about rape.

 

A woman would be forced to marry her rapist (Deuteronomy 22:28-29).

A woman could be executed for being raped (Deuteronomy 22:23-24).

Taking women as spoils of war was seen as swell (Deuteronomy 21:10-14).

The Bible is a poor source for moral teachings.

 

I would also point out that Deuteronomy 22:28-29 did not refer to rape but to consensual sex. As seen from the KJV, it lacks the key phrase "force her" which exists in v. 25, a verses earlier. And verses 25-27 clearly show that the penalty for raping a woman by "forc[ing] her" was death to the man only. Similarly, verses 23-24 involved mutually consenting adultery and both the man and woman were guilty of death. The critic cherrypicked the verses without the crucial ones actually involving rape in between, in other words.

Deuteronomy 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:

 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:

 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.

 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

 

The inference is that Moses' commandment in Deuteronomy 21 was supported by God which is nowhere stated. Actually Moses by giving the commandment directly disobeyed God's original command not to make a covenant with the Canaanites or have relationships with their descendants. (Exodus 23:32, 34:11-17; Deuteronomy 7:2-4, 20:16-18)

 

Moses' disobedience was so great that God shortly after this punished Moses by not letting him enter the Promised Land. (Deuteronomy 32:51) Moses similarly disobeyed God by allowing Israelites to divorce their wives, which as Jesus pointed out was contrary to what God intended. (Mark 10:4-12) Jesus if asked about this would likely have said the same thing, that this was a case of Moses disobeying God's commandments. Moses had a history of disobeying God as far back as the burning bush, when God repeatedly told Moses to go to Pharaoh, and Moses first complained that he was a nobody, then complained Pharaoh wouldn't listen, argued he couldn't speak well, and finally just told God to go bother someone else. (Exodus 3:11-4:14)

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Disagreed. The Jubile for Hebrews was 7 years (Exodus 21) but there was a separate 50-year Jubile in Leviticus 25:8 that applied to everyone and freed all slaves regularly. And the word in Exodus 21:21 does not mean "survives" it means "recovers" or "continues" as translated by the KJV and NIV. The Hebrew word being translated is 'amad.'

 

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/amad.html

 

Exodus 21:23-27, just a few verses later, makes clear that the penalty for killing others was the same harm done, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, so a master who killed his servant would be punished with death. It also makes clear that even minor harm resulting in deformity was to result in complete freedom from service. Thus Exodus 21:21 can only be referring to bruising that resulted in temporary damage not permanent injury.

 

My complete analysis of the slavery issue will be here:

http://www.bereawiki.com/wiki/Slavery

50 years?...well that's not a very long time at all. With regard to Exodus 21:21, even if so, today we wouldn't tolerate beating anyone. We wouldn't say "It's ok in this case because the slave/servant is his money".

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Disagreed. The Jubile for Hebrews was 7 years (Exodus 21) but there was a separate 50-year Jubile in Leviticus 25:8 that applied to everyone and freed all slaves regularly. And the word in Exodus 21:21 does not mean "survives" it means "recovers" or "continues" as translated by the KJV and NIV. The Hebrew word being translated is 'amad.'

 

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/amad.html

 

Exodus 21:23-27, just a few verses later, makes clear that the penalty for killing others was the same harm done, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, so a master who killed his servant would be punished with death. It also makes clear that even minor harm resulting in deformity was to result in complete freedom from service. Thus Exodus 21:21 can only be referring to bruising that resulted in temporary damage not permanent injury.

 

My complete analysis of the slavery issue will be here:

http://www.bereawiki.com/wiki/Slavery

50 years?...well that's not a very long time at all. With regard to Exodus 21:21, even if so, today we wouldn't tolerate beating anyone. We wouldn't say "It's ok in this case because the slave/servant is his money".

 

 

50 years was just the maximum, twice each century everyone was freed and all debts were pardoned. It could end up 10 years in one case if they were brought into Israel 10 years before the Jubile, or it could be 50. Ultimately this resulted though in Israel being the only country in the world at the time with a system of perpetually freeing slaves, a self-sustaining system that kept buying slaves and then freeing them. Had they been freed right away far fewer could have been freed as Israel would have quickly gone bankrupt. I'd argue that for its time this was the best system for freeing slaves that existed at the time.

 

It is also debatable to what extent we've done away with slavery. Even aside from countries like Africa where slavery and sex trafficking still occurs, today people spend much of their lifetimes in bondage to banks paying off loans with adjustable interest rates that drive them into debts greater than the home originally cost. Either way, the Mosaic Law was at the time one of the best systems in the ancient world for over 3,000 years.

 

-It required protecting escaped slaves from their owners and giving them safe haven. (Deut. 23:15)

-It required the death penalty for those enslaving others, including to sell them. (Ex. 21:16)

-It required freeing any slaves who were substantially harmed. (Ex. 21:26-27)

-It required freeing everyone twice each century with all they owned from all debts and bondage. (Lev. 12:8-13)

 

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Also, if you look at other ancient law codes that the Mosaic Law was similar to, such as the Law Code of Ur-Nammu, Laws of Eshnunna, and Code of Hammurabi (among others), they did not have many of these protections for slaves. In comparison to other ancient law codes, the Mosaic Law made some remarkably progressive adaptations to stop the abuses of slavery.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Ur-Nammu#Content

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi#Laws_covered

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