Lottery Tickets

[The_Patriot21]

Im with firestorm on this shiloh, you haven't given any biblical support, and there have been plenty of examples in this thread of people who gambled-with no want to get rich, who just enjoyed the hobby.
 

lets look at the facts. First off, gambling is actually found in the Bible (such as when they cast lots to throw jonah overboard) but no, its never specifically banned. The Bible does teach wise money use, however.

 

People can become hooked on gambling, for different reasons. Be it greed, or an escape from life. However, its important to notice, that people can get hooked on a lot of things-and people are by nature greedy and wanting money-whether that be by running a multi-million dollar oil company or playing texas hold em, people are greedy. By the logic "if you want it for money then your greedy" then none of us should even have a job, because after all, we have jobs to make money to buy things. 

 

Gambling has ruined many peoples lives. So has the church. food for thought.

 

Now, before we go and point fingers, lets point it at ourselves. What do we spend money? What hobbies do we have? what money do we spend on ourselves, and not feeding the homeless? lets look at me-I enjoy hunting and fishing and outdoor activities. I probably spend several hundred dollars every year on being out in the outdoors-be it hunting or what not. And I never, ever, ever even get a CHANCE of a monetary return on it. I do it because I enjoy it. What do YOU spend your money on? you can't tell me you don't have some sort of hobby that you enjoy-that costs time and money. 

 

As long as one is wise with their money-and can keep it under control, then gambling is no different then any other hobby. Like the above mentioned friend I had-who just enjoyed the game, never spent any of his regular income on it, just enjoyed playing, well, sure, he could have given it to feed the homeless-but you could spend the money your using to pay your internet bill right now to feed the homeless to. Gambling in excess to where you and your family are starving and your bills arn't paid-yes thats just pure greed and poor money management (which is a sin) but within reason, its not. I can't think of a single Biblical argument for gambling as a hobby.

[tigger398]

 

Ok this customer came in and bought a lottery ticket and said something like if he wins God will get 10% of it. Can you do lottery tickets as tithe. Will God accept it. It God's money after all.

 

What do you think tigger398? Will God accept it?

 

I wouldn't do it. I would give God money out of my pay. Customers will buy me lottery tickets at work sometimes. If I win I spend it on things. It makes me feel like if I was going to robb someone, and give God the money I stole. Just don't sit well with me, but that's just me ok, not judging anyone. Now if I have a few dollars laying around and I don't need anything. I might buy a couple of tickets.

[murray007]

In this, the scripture that comes to mind is when Paul talks about being a stumbling block to those that may be less mature or firm in their faith as us. It does not make the activity right or wrong, but if doing something (of which we are still secure in our faith and Godly walk) causes someone else to falter, then we should reassess our actions and how they affect people around us.

[Guest shiloh357]

Im with firestorm on this shiloh, you haven't given any biblical support,

 

I have given biblical support.   I don't have a verse that specifically mentions "gambling is a sin," but then I can't find a verse that says it is a sin for you to beat your wife.  I don't have a verse that says it's wrong for you to pour gasoline all over yourself and set yourself on fire.  Do I need specific biblical support in order for me to say those things are wrong?

 

We have a very narrow and incorrect understanding of what "biblical support" means.  For some reason we have this delusion that if there is no verse that directly addresses a subject then it's moral implications are in limbo and are matters of personal conviction.   I don't need a verse to tell me what is right and wrong in a given situation not directly mentioned in the Bible.  I can extrapolate from the light that Scripture already provides to determine if something is right or wrong.

 

and there have been plenty of examples in this thread of people who gambled-with no want to get rich, who just enjoyed the hobby.

 

 

Hobby?? Really??  What a crock.  Yeah for every one example you can provide of someone who just likes to throw thousand and thousands of dollars way on the "hobby" of gambling, there are far more examples of lives that have been destroyed by this so-called "hobby." 

 

lets look at the facts. First off, gambling is actually found in the Bible (such as when they cast lots to throw jonah overboard) but no, its never specifically banned. The Bible does teach wise money use, however.

 

 

Casting lots to decide Jonah's fate was not "gambling."  It was a completely different thing.  Those were pagans seeking an answer from God.  Gambling is a game of chance.  That doesn't give a defense of gambling.   In fact, the only "gambling" I see in the Bible are pagan Roman soldiers gambling for Jesus' garments.  You don't find believers in the Bible gambling.

 

Wise money use is the antithesis of gambling, BTW.

 

People can become hooked on gambling, for different reasons. Be it greed, or an escape from life. However, its important to notice, that people can get hooked on a lot of things-and people are by nature greedy and wanting money-whether that be by running a multi-million dollar oil company or playing texas hold em, people are greedy. By the logic "if you want it for money then your greedy" then none of us should even have a job, because after all, we have jobs to make money to buy things.

 

Gambling has ruined many peoples lives. So has the church. food for thought.

 

Ah, now comes the moral relativism argument.   If people wreck their lives on other things, that must mean that gambling is okay because I can wreck my life with religion, food, or running a business.  

 

The Bible condemns self-destructive behavior in general because we are each temples of the Holy Spirit.  The Bible provides a behavioral paradigm that teaches us to avoid activities that have the potential to destroy our lives, wreck our marriages, leave us destitute as gambling often does to people.   It doesn't matter what you are engaging in.  Gambling is one of those things that everyone thinks they can manage and beat the odds and maybe some do.  But the vast majority don't.

 

Now, before we go and point fingers, lets point it at ourselves. What do we spend money? What hobbies do we have? what money do we spend on ourselves, and not feeding the homeless? lets look at me-I enjoy hunting and fishing and outdoor activities. I probably spend several hundred dollars every year on being out in the outdoors-be it hunting or what not. And I never, ever, ever even get a CHANCE of a monetary return on it. I do it because I enjoy it. What do YOU spend your money on? you can't tell me you don't have some sort of hobby that you enjoy-that costs time and money.

 

Gambling isn't a hobby and trying to make that comparison is really, really weak.   There is far reaching difference between spending money on something that brings personal enjoyment and a sense of accomplishment whether it is fishing, hunting, making things in a wood shop in the backyard, or whatever.  Gambling doesn't do that to people.   You walk into a casino and the hopes are that you will get that one chance, luck will smile on you and you will strike it rich.  No one gambles just to throw money away.  No one gambles without hoping for a big return on their investment  and casino will do everything it can to keep a person hoping against the odds and spend far more money than they intended to spend.  Most people who walk into a casino or buy lottery tickets are not James Bond with an unending stipend of money at their disposal.

 

Most people who gamble have no business gambling.  I have a friend who works at a convenience store and he says that most people who buy lottery tickets are people on fixed incomes.  The reason he knows this is because they come in all of the time. They are regulars and almost like clockwork, they come in to buy their tickets.  If they get a little extra cash for their birthday, they come in and blow it on lottery tickets.  They budget their SS check so that they always have some to spend on lottery tickets.  He said he could put his kids through college on the amount of money that these poor people spend each month on lottery tickets.  Gambling is an addiction and it is rooted in the love of money.  The fact that they almost never win except petty cash, maybe the win $30 every now and then, but they turn around and spend their winnings on more tickets.  They spend thousands a year with nothing to show for it.   That is a pretty crappy "hobby."

 

As long as one is wise with their money-and can keep it under control, then gambling is no different then any other hobby.

 

if a person was wise with their money they would not spend it in casinos or on lottery tickets at all.  If they were wise, they would put the money in the bank or save it for a family vacation.

 

Like the above mentioned friend I had-who just enjoyed the game, never spent any of his regular income on it, just enjoyed playing, well, sure, he could have given it to feed the homeless-but you could spend the money your using to pay your internet bill right now to feed the homeless to. Gambling in excess to where you and your family are starving and your bills arn't paid-yes thats just pure greed and poor money management (which is a sin) but within reason, its not. I can't think of a single Biblical argument for gambling as a hobby.

 

You can lose the moral relativism approach.  That is just nonsense.  Their is a huge moral distinction that has to be drawn between a "hobby" and gambling your money away.  Hobbies are things that one can share with family.  For some, their hobby is taking the family to important historical sites or landmarks.  That is not the same as throwing money way on empty delusions that one is going to strike it rich.  Hobbies enrich your life and potentially the lives of one's family depending on what the hobby is.  That is money well spent.   Hobbies give you something to show for what you spend.  There is a reward for it.  Gambling just empties your pockets leaves you with nothing.

[GoldenEagle]

 

I know people who go gamble simply for the enjoyment. They probably spend $50-200 on slots. A good ballet, play, or even night out at the movies (including dinner) could cost that. I agree to some it's simply entertainment. Of interest most entertainment venues don't offer a way to actually make money though.

To say that all people who gamble end up with their lives destroyed or their purpose is to make money is like saying that all people who drink become alcoholics IMO.

Again, is this issue personal conviction or personal preference? Personally, I don't think the idea that gambling is sin is a Biblical truth. I haven't seen Scriptural evidence contrary...

 

 

For clarification this comment/question was for Shiloh.

God bless,

GE

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

I know people who go gamble simply for the enjoyment. They probably spend $50-200 on slots. A good ballet, play, or even night out at the movies (including dinner) could cost that. I agree to some it's simply entertainment. Of interest most entertainment venues don't offer a way to actually make money though.

To say that all people who gamble end up with their lives destroyed or their purpose is to make money is like saying that all people who drink become alcoholics IMO.

Again, is this issue personal conviction or personal preference? Personally, I don't think the idea that gambling is sin is a Biblical truth. I haven't seen Scriptural evidence contrary...

 

 

For clarification this comment/question was for Shiloh.

God bless,

GE

 

1.  I didn't say that all people who gamble end up with their lives destroyed.  I am sure there are people who beat the odds, but that doesn't sanitize gambling.

 

2.  I have never met anyone willing to throw away large sums of money in casinos with no hope for nothing in return.  To throw away hundreds of dollars for no reason is a pretty silly and irresponsible form of entertainment particularly the risks that gambling poses.

 

3.  Gambling as a sin is not mentioned in the Bible.  But the Bible doesn't mention EVERY sin a person can possibly commit.   Again, as I said to Patriot the argument that it has to be mentioned directly in the Bible as a sin in order to qualify as a sin is a faulty argument given there are multiple activities we deem as sinful that are not mentioned in the Bible.   "Child molestation, spousal abuse, suicide, just to name a few.   

 

The Bible sets up a behavioral paradigm that allows us to examine things the Bible doesn't address in the light of what it does address.  The Bible says we are to flee, to get as far away from sin as we can.   The problem is that we want loopholes.  We want to make things permissible as long as they don't go "too far."  

 

If we apply the logic being employed by those who argue that gambling isn't a sin because it isn't directly mentioned in the Bible, then as long as one doesn't make graven images, one is free to make idols out of paper since the Bible doesn't say that making idols out of paper are a sin.   Of course, we don't argue that way because we know that the medium isn't the issue.  We understand that commandment to be a prohibition of any idol regardless of the material it is made from because the Bible is setting a behavior paradigm regarding idolatry.

 

I don't need a verse that says gambling is a sin because of the potential sin one can be caught up in when one gambles.  Gambling is designed to impoverish people and make the house rich.  Lotteries are no different.  They hook people and make them slaves without them even knowing it.  There are people with alcohol addictions who think they are still in control. 

 

Your friends may soon find out that while they think they are in control and just gamble for fun, it may have a stronger hold on them than they think.  Most people caught up in an addiction are the last ones to find out that they are addicted.

 

So is this personal preference?  I don't think so. It really becomes problematic when we try to justify and rationalize our behavior on the grounds that it is nothing but personal preference. 

 

Not all personal preferences are holy and many personal preferences can be destructive and so I don't think the lines are as clearly delineated as you think they are.

[Guest LadyC]

 

 

You walk into a casino and the hopes are that you will get that one chance, luck will smile on you and you will strike it rich.  No one gambles just to throw money away.  No one gambles without hoping for a big return on their investment 

 

there you go again, spewing out accusations that have already been proven false. or does my own personal firsthand experience not count? it's easy for you to just paint everyone with the same brush, but it falsifies every statement you make.

 

*I* can walk into a casino with no hope or expectation  of getting that one chance of striking it rich. *I* gamble for NO OTHER REASON than entertainment, expecting to LOSE every dollar i spend, which really is the definition of "throwing money away".

 

but it's too inconvenient for you to acknowledge me, because i don't fit neatly into your little box.... just like patriot's friend doesn't fit neatly into your box. i could see you brushing that one off easier because that's secondhand information about someone who isn't here. but i AM here. and i'm telling you, i enjoy gambling on occasion for nothing more than entertainment.

 

and again i ask you... what do YOU do for entertainment?

 

yes, patriot's choice of word "hobby" was an unfortunate one. but entertainment is something one spends money on without expectation of a return on their investment. have you ever played pinball? or asteroids? have you ever gone to a theater and spent a small fortune on an evening of entertainment that you could have had at home for a fraction of the cost? those aren't things that leave you with a sense of accomplishment. those are things that are purely for entertainment and no other reason.

 

 

 

if a person was wise with their money they would not spend it in casinos or on lottery tickets at all.  If they were wise, they would put the money in the bank or save it for a family vacation.

 

i'm going to take that personally, just because i can. just because i've stated my personal position time and time again and yet you keep lumping anyone who gambles into the same undesirable category. WHO ARE YOU to say i'm not wise with my money because i spent $20 in a slot machine instead of putting it into the ATM to save for a family vacation? for your information, those date nights with my husband, sitting side by side in a casino for a few hours, mutually enjoying our time together and our activity, WAS our "vacation. leaving town once a year for a week or two at a time just isn't our cup of tea.

 

not every gambler is irresponsible, or is addicted, or whatever. quit making such judgments. it doesn't become you.

[Guest LadyC]

Shiloh, please answer the question i've asked numerous times. what do YOU enjoy doing for entertainment? what activity do you do that someone else might see as a frivolous use of money?

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh, please answer the question i've asked numerous times. what do YOU enjoy doing for entertainment? what activity do you do that someone else might see as a frivolous use of money?

This is not about a frivolous use of money.  Gambling is way past frivolous.   Everyone budgets a little money to have fun on.  Gambling addictions are far more problematic because now you can even gamble online and casinos popping up everywhere across America. I know of two casinos within two hours of where I live, as they advertise all of the time on TV.  Gambling is not a frivolous expenditure.  When people gamble they are playing with fire.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

You walk into a casino and the hopes are that you will get that one chance, luck will smile on you and you will strike it rich.  No one gambles just to throw money away.  No one gambles without hoping for a big return on their investment 

 

there you go again, spewing out accusations that have already been proven false. or does my own personal firsthand experience not count? it's easy for you to just paint everyone with the same brush, but it falsifies every statement you make.

 

*I* can walk into a casino with no hope or expectation  of getting that one chance of striking it rich. *I* gamble for NO OTHER REASON than entertainment, expecting to LOSE every dollar i spend, which really is the definition of "throwing money away".

 

but it's too inconvenient for you to acknowledge me, because i don't fit neatly into your little box.... just like patriot's friend doesn't fit neatly into your box. i could see you brushing that one off easier because that's secondhand information about someone who isn't here. but i AM here. and i'm telling you, i enjoy gambling on occasion for nothing more than entertainment.

 

and again i ask you... what do YOU do for entertainment?

 

yes, patriot's choice of word "hobby" was an unfortunate one. but entertainment is something one spends money on without expectation of a return on their investment. have you ever played pinball? or asteroids? have you ever gone to a theater and spent a small fortune on an evening of entertainment that you could have had at home for a fraction of the cost? those aren't things that leave you with a sense of accomplishment. those are things that are purely for entertainment and no other reason.

 

 

 

if a person was wise with their money they would not spend it in casinos or on lottery tickets at all.  If they were wise, they would put the money in the bank or save it for a family vacation.

 

i'm going to take that personally, just because i can. just because i've stated my personal position time and time again and yet you keep lumping anyone who gambles into the same undesirable category. WHO ARE YOU to say i'm not wise with my money because i spent $20 in a slot machine instead of putting it into the ATM to save for a family vacation? for your information, those date nights with my husband, sitting side by side in a casino for a few hours, mutually enjoying our time together and our activity, WAS our "vacation. leaving town once a year for a week or two at a time just isn't our cup of tea.

 

not every gambler is irresponsible, or is addicted, or whatever. quit making such judgments. it doesn't become you.

 

Go ahead and take it personally if you wish.

 

The fact is that not everyone is like you.  The vast majority aren't.   Gambling addictions are more prevalent now than ever before and it is only going to get worse.   Gambling is foolish, irresponsible and self-destructive and there are plenty broken families and broken people who have lost everything, to prove it.  I am not going to change my views to accommodate the limited scope of your experience.