By David the Prince
In this post I will be providing Scriptural proof that the Holy Spirit is simply the Spirit of the Father and not a seperate god-person as many allege. I will do this by comparing Scripture with Scripture.
"But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, that I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:'" (Acts 2:14-17)
Now, who is talking here in Joel? Well Jesus tells us...
"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." (Luke 24:49)
So the Father is the One identified as making the promise of pouring out His Spirit upon all flesh. The Father's Spirit cannot be a seperate person than Him. It would be like saying Noah's spirit is a different person than him, its completely absurd.
Jesus said that “God is a Spirit” in the context of saying, “the Father seeks true worshipers to worship Him in Spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24).” Since “God is a Spirit” and since the Father alone seeks true worshipers to worship Him in Spirit and in truth, the Father must be that “One Spirit” (Ephesians 4:4-6, “one Spirit … One God and Father above all, through all, and in you all.”) who is to be worshiped.
According to John 12:49, God the Father gave Jesus the commands to speak to his disciples (“For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.”- John 12:49) while Acts 1:2 states that Jesus “had given commands through the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom he had chosen (Acts 1:2).”
Since John 12:49 states that the Father gave Jesus the commands to speak, but Acts 1:2 states that the Holy Spirit gave those commands, the Holy Spirit must be the Spirit of the Father who indwelt Jesus (“the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwells in me, He does the works” – John 14:10), led Jesus (“Jesus was led by the Spirit”- Matthew 4:1), and gave him the commandments to speak (“the word which you hear is not mine, but the Fathers” – John 14:24). Thus, Scripture proves that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father who gave the man Christ Jesus the words and commandments to speak to his disciples.
It's important that we don't reduce the Holy Spirit of our heavenly Father to simply an impersonal force like plugging in a cord to an electric socket. There are a few places where the Holy Spirit speaks. This is because the Holy Spirit is the Father in Spirit. Very personal. But it is also in a sense a force in the fact that the Holy Spirit is the Father's power in action. We can know that by comparing verses such as these:
In Matthew's account (12:27-28), we read...
"And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."
But in Luke 11:19-20, in a parallel account, we read...
"Now if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your followers drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."
And the Greek word there is literally "finger."
Now I must ask, why, if the Holy Spirit is a distinct god-person from the Father, is the Holy Spirit called "the finger" of God here? Your finger is not a distinct person from you and it would be completely absurd to suggest so. But what is meant by finger is "power."
Finger of God=power of God
Also, if the Holy Spirit is a distinct god-person, why does the Holy Spirit never send any greetings nor is prayed to at any point in Scripture? This is what lead the Seventh-day Adventists in one of their meetings to I think rather jokingly label the Holy Spirit the “shy member" of the trinity. I mean we should expect someone somewhere in Scripture to recognize the Holy Spirit's person-hood and pray to “God the Holy Spirit.”
Okay, so here's the thing, I know for a fact this post is going to push a few buttons as I know there is bound to be at least one person who is a member at this church who will see this.
Firstly, let me start off by saying that I do not know how to test the spirits as yet and therefore I am unable to tell whether or not someone is a false prophet and so, therefore, I always conduct a google search to do a background check on the "preacher" in question - I've only recently started doing this. I think highly of Joyce Meyer but according to research, she's a false prophet. I wouldn't say I follow the teaching of Steve Furtick as I have yet to listen to one of his messages but I love, love, love Elevation Worship. According to research, he is a false prophet.
I have seen online that Pastor Furtick is a big fan of rock music and it shows in his ministry, his church does look a lot like a concert venue. It just makes me question if I am in the wrong for listening and worshipping to the music of Elevation Worship. I have their songs fullness, give me faith, the King is among us and resurrecting on repeat, with a strong love for a couple others.
ANOTHER EXAMPLE: Charlotte Gambill of Life Church, Bradford, UK
I remember my first encounter with Charlotte's message, it was at a women's conference hosted by a popular UK Christian organisation called Premier. I loved her message and went on to attend Charlotte's own women conference several months later with empowering and uplifting messages, there was a couple of secular songs played but not half as much as I heard when I attended her conference this year. I guess I didn't hear as much secular music as I attended her conference myself this year and was always on time to hear the word, in comparison to last year when I went with a friend and we were always late. This year, music from the likes of Beyonce, Pharrell Williams etc. was played and I looked around thinking that I couldn't possibly be the only person to disagree with what was going on? Secular music at a Christian conference?
I wasn't as bothered last year as I wasn't so grounded in the word and in my faith as yet but my present church has taught me how vital it is to not participate in listening and singing secular music. I guess 1 Corinthians 10:31 confirms why, "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." The issue is I love their worship team too, not half as much as I do Elevation Worship but that's beside the point.
Honestly, I don't know why I even bothered to write this post. I know it's wrong to continue listening to a worship team led by a wolf in sheep's clothing. I guess like things of the world it's hard to pull away from something damaging to your spiritual walk, even more so actually. I just thought I would share my viewpoint with you all.
God bless you all,
By Jonathan BeWell
I read the entire "Christian's going to hell" thread and was about to jump in with my own reply. I did not realize the limitations of this forum section. I suppose that is fine. I got a lot out of what was discussed but still struggle with some of it. I get all the points of views, proof, beliefs and such. I am not trying to call out or trap anyone. I am a baby Christian and have honest questions for clarification. I pray we can all come to an agreement on God's word and truth.
I was hoping we could base the discussion on Matthew 25 ( https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+25&version=NIV ) and how it related to the thread I could not jump in on. My question is this. Does Matthew 25 add or take away from any and all posts made there by *everyone*?
I have more specific questions too. The ten virgins for starters, do they not represent Christians covered in the blood of Jesus? I am not clear on the oil in their lamps as well. I suppose it could relate to my above general question.
I am wrestling with all this. I believe I am a born again Christian. I have faith in my salvation. I am concerned about others I care for and love. I will elaborate and add more enquiries as this thread develops. May opportunities open to know and understand the Holy Trinity better. Be well, content and helpful in the Lord.
By Jonathan BeWell
Our Heavenly Father, whose Son is thee door to heaven, Holy Spirit lovingly teaching us meaning of your name.
I continue to confess, apologize for, rebuke and repent from surfacing sin. May your revival usher in your kingdom according to your will with ours bent to it. May our leaders own up to their power and responsibilities by declaring and enabling your rule, reign and sovereignty. May they be careful and aware of their extreme influence. May we awake and arise to these times of spiritual crisis from which all other curses fester. May we acknowledge Jesus Christ as living water from whom all healing and restoration flows. Forgive us Lord for our distractions, false idols and sin in place of You. We are near rock bottom and have only You to save us. Have mercy on our souls. May You revive us and have us grow, ripe for harvest. Lest we forget the folly and fate of our past. We have You to thank and draw us near in times of desperation. I call upon your terms, cleanse the church to make Christ's body fit for the good Lord's fight, already won, rescue more lost souls. I dare cry "bloody murder" yet truth being told with our Saviour sacrificing himself. All who believe in him live eternally ever after.
In Jesus Christ's pure perfect holy name I pray, amen.
By Jonathan BeWell
My following testimony is inspired by shapes' post in the "Worthy Q & A for Seekers" forum. And I quote, "How does God deal with those who have mental illness. Does he heal people from this affliction?" https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/219239-mental-illness-god/#comment-2777709
God dealt with my mind in a mess by giving me a guardian angel. I have seen and heard her. God had me born into an amazing family. They love, protect and provide for me. God gave me and the ability to discern real true friends. Only a couple dozen never gave up on me. God supplied me with doctors, psychiatrists and professionals. Medications, personal care and safety nets caught me when I fell, repeatedly. God commands my government, nation and community services to help me, however little and lacking it is. God dealt with me by interacting with my heart, mind, body and soul. Most importantly, God dealt with my sin by sending His Son, Jesus Christ, to save, protect and heal me.
I have been saved since 2016's Christmas season. I dove deep into everything Christian and came up baptized on the last day of 2017 (also baptized as an infant). I attended some prayer meetings last year. They anointed me with oil and prayed for the healing of my mind. Since then, God has been healing and restoring me among other areas of my life. I feel shocks of energy surge though and jerk my body. I have been told this is the blood of Jesus running through me. When I am praying, willingly changing my thoughts to God's will, having revelations or meditating on God, I feel tangible physical healing in my temples behind my eyes. It has the similar sensation of a yawn, a condensed vibration. A Christian veteran I admire said something that stuck in my head relatively recently. "I don't even think like that anymore." It was a eureka revelation moment at the time and applies to what has been happening to my mind over the past year. I am becoming less like the Greg of the past and more like Christ. The Holy Spirit is alive and well in me and changing me for the better.
The short answer is, "yes," He does heal people from this affliction.
How God deals with sin, evil, death and even demons is by offering Jesus Christ a place in between us and all those "mental health issues." The secular world is leaving out God (in three Persons) as the ultimate and only real true solution, cure, coping mechanism and explanation, etcetera. I am living breathing proof. People would have a hard time believing my past. People in my past would have a hard time believing my present. My future will be hard to believe for anyone stuck in the secular world ignoring the one, true, living God. Jesus Christ is alive and well and has made me so, eternally, glory be to our Heavenly Father!
12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the impure spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.
- Mark 5:12-13 New International Version (NIV)
3 Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest.
- Hebrews 3:1 New International Version (NIV)
7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
- Philippians 4:7 New International Version (NIV)