Spock Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Spock You wanted be to contribute: First of all there are three beasts mentioned. 1. The one coming out of the sea is an empire (nations), it has the same attributes as the leopard, the bear and the lion (Babylon, Meades and Persians and Greece). Along with its own (iron). 2. One of the heads (leaders) of this first beast has a fatal wound which is healed, and the whole world follows him because his wound was healed. 3. The third beast is the False Prophet. The beast with the fatal wound only has authority for 42 months (no more, no less). This is a man, because he and the False Prophet are thrown alive into the Lake of Fire in Rev 19:20. I believe this world leader is the one described in Dan 9:27 (he makes a seven year agreement, then breaks it with the A/D). So this beast is in control for the first half the Daniels 70th Week. Some one more powerful comes on the scene for the final 42 months (he is seen in Rev 16:13. This same entity chases after the woman (Israel) after the A/D is set up Matt 24:15 and (Rev 12:13, 14 - dragon for 42 months). This is my take on Rev 13. In Christ Montana Marv Thanks Marv. Let me get this straight. Do You believe the world leader who makes the peace treaty to begin Daniels 70th week is a different person than the second beast you referenced who has power for 42 months? Do you believe the dude with power for 42 months is the antichrist? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2014 Hi Spock & rollinTHUNDER, God the author of the book of Revelation, as we know, desires for us to understand His Son more. Thus He has over 330 references to figures, shadows, symbols, types, etc found in the Old Testament. Now God does not leave the interpretation of these to us, as our opinions are like belly buttons, - everyone has one!!!! For example let us look at God`s meaning versus man`s opinion in regard to the woman in Rev. 17. MAN`S OPINION rT said concerning the woman, `this sure resembles the Roman Catholic Church.` And yes we can all see that resemblance, however that is based on our opinion & not God`s word. GOD`S SYMBOL & MEANING The woman had on her forehead - `on her forehead a name was written; Mystery Babylon the Great, the Mother of Prostitutes & of the Abominations of the earth.` (Rev. 17: 5) God`s priests wore on their foreheads - `Holiness unto the Lord.` (Ex. 28: 36) The `forehead,` represented character. The woman`s garments, she was `arrayed in purple & scarlet, & adorned with gold & precious stones......` (Rev. 17: 4) The priests garments were `gold & blue & purple & scarlet.....` with 12 precious stones....(Ex. 28: 1 - 21) Note `blue,` was symbolic of Divinity. These garments represented their holy office of mediation, & received honour & respect. Thus the NAME & GARMENTS represent the CHARACTER & OFFICE of the priests. The woman - false religion has an unholy charater & receives honor & respect from the leaders of the Global Government. God`s word does not say the Roman Catholic Church is the woman but refers to ALL false religions - `peoples, multitudes, nations & tongues.` (Rev. 17: 15) ALL religions as they are ALL unholy & ALL have an alliance with the leaders of the World System. To single out the Roman Catholic Church is to be blinded to what Satan is really doing, subtly. He is bringing ONE BELIEF that is UNITING ALL RELIGIONS, - the strong delusion - `the strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. ` (2 Tim. 8 - 12) Hi Marilyn, Yes, these are mans opinions, including yours. God's word gives us clues, but will not say who the beast is. I wrote my personal interpretation based on what I see at this time. I reserve the right to change it if events on the ground warrant a change, which is why I keep watching. As the ole saying goes, "All roads lead to Rome". As I connect all of the dots, the Vatican qualifies in every single category. The Vatican also wishes to unite all religions, which will end up singling out true Christianity, as we are not tolerant of the other religions, because we know that there is only one way, truth and light. We stand in the way of their unification, so we will be hunted like sheep being led to the slaughter in the end. This is also why we must be ready when the Son of man appears and sends the angels to gather His elect (chosen). Your view does not appear to qualify in every category. The Arabs are not arrayed in scarlet and purple, or have a city built on seven hills. They are not mystery Babylon (having destroyed the Temple and stolen the golden artifacts). And there has never been an Islamic world Empire, so it does not even qualify to have a head that was fatally wounded and resurrected. Granted, Islam does qualify for a false prophet, and they also seek a global government (caliphate), but I believe they will be part of and included in the revived Roman Empire (new world order). So it will be interesting to watch how they fit into this global beast. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Marilyn, I think the biggest obstacle for me in trying to interpret this passage from Rev 13 is this: John is writing this at 95 AD, and says five kings "HAVE FALLEN" which to me means past tense from the date he is writing this. Your contemporary interpretation of making these 5 kings in the 70th week of Daniel (tribulation) is just not sitting well with me for now. Your Daniel Beast interpretation of Daniel 7 was easier for me to see your contemporary interpretation there, but just not here in Revelation 13. Does this make sense? And you see Islam where I see the RCC. If I have a hard time with someone's interpretation, I don't get frustrated and I don't try to fit it in on my own strength. If the Holy Spirit doesn't seal it for me, it ain't happening. Maybe I am just not ready to receive the wisdom you apparently have. As I mentioned to you once before, this wouldn't surprise me. Pride has been my biggest weakness in my walk with Him. Maybe he wants me humble in my ignorance. I don't know. At this point in time, subject to change, Rolling Thunders interpretation makes much more sense. Look to Rome (Vatican City) for the action. I do read though and I always listen to you so I hope I don't frustrate you when things don't click. You know I have great love for you and respect you deeply, right? Spock quietly walking away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Marilyn, You said the following: ERRORS 1. GLOBAL GOVERNMENT. The Historical View errs in thinking that it can include `Assyria & Egypt,` in the list of World Rulers. God clearly shows us who the World Rulers are - 1. Babylon. 2. Medes & Persians. 3. Greece. 4. Rome. 5. Final Global Government. If you include `Assyria & Egypt,` you would have to include the Mongolian Empire, the third Reich, the Ottoman Empire etc. but these are only large Empires but never World Rulers. Spock's musings: I feel you on this one. I too struggle with adding Assyria and Egypt only. It is possible people have added these two only just to make their views fit. This concerns me, but I can't be dogmatic one way or the other. I'm not as sure as you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,134 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted June 8, 2014 Spock The beast with the fatal wound (I would consider him the antichrist), for all follow him and worship him as their new leader. Christ is to be worshiped, the antichrist will also want to be worshiped. Our God wants to be worshiped, yet Satan (the dragon or serpent) also wants to be worshiped. The False Prophet wants to lead people to worship the antichrist; Our Holy Spirit wants to lead people to worship Jesus Christ. Yet this (antichrist) of Dan 9:27 makes a seven year agreement with many, yet in the middle of the seven he breaks the agreement and sets up the A/D near the Temple. This is the second beast of Rev 13 who dies of a fatal would (one of the heads of the first beast [kingdom/empire] which has authority for only 42 months) and is an extension of the final world empire in Daniels statue of Dan 2:40. So we see an unholy trinity of (Satan, Antichrist and the False Prophet) which wants to be like the true Holy Trinity of (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit). The A/C has authority for only 42 months (Rev 13:5), the Satan the one who succeeds him will also only have authority for 42 months (Rev 12:15-17). I believe this is also the willful king of Dan 11:36-45. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Marv, So, you see the antichrist signing the treaty and then getting killed around the abomination of desolation (3.5 yrs). And then do you see satan possessing his body the last 3.5 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,046 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,788 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted June 8, 2014 Where does the beast (ridden by the woman) out of the abyss fit into this (if at all)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Where does the beast (ridden by the woman) out of the abyss fit into this (if at all)? Rev 17 3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5The name written on her forehead was a mystery: Spock: Isn't this beast in Rev 17 with the 7 heads and ten toes- the same as the beast in rev 13 with seven heads and ten crowns? Rev 13: 1The dragona stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,046 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,788 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted June 8, 2014 Spock, I really don't know. Take an Excel spread sheet and put each individual part in Revelation and Daniel in individual cells and move them around to get them all to match up in some order. I've tried for years to put it all together and i got so upset fighting with myself I just let it go. If I can't agree with me how can I discuss it with others LoL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted June 8, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,184 Content Per Day: 3.50 Reputation: 8,484 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Hi all, I so had a laugh `other one` when you said `I got so upset fighting with myself .....if I can`t agree with me how can I discuss it with others...` I need to apologise to all, & thank you Spock for the gentle admonition. Yes, you could gather from my tone I was `frustrated, ` & that is not good for a discussion. I have been concerned that either I wasn`t clearly presenting what I believe or people were misunderstanding me. Now I would like to answer the questions from rT & Spock, but first let me do an overview of what I see the Revived Roman Empire view is & the Islamic view. REVIVED ROMAN EMPIRE & THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. (Assyria & Egypt) (not world rulers) 1. BABYLON - (Head / Lion) 2. MEDES & PERSIANS - (Chest & Arms / Bear) 3. GREECE - (Belly & Thighs / Leopard) 4. ROME - (Legs / REVIVED ROME - (Feet & Toes / Terrifying beast) & the Roman Catholic Church. (Ruling over all religions) ISLAMIC DOMINATION & THE UNITED NATIONS 1. BABYLON - (Head) 2. MEDES & PERSIANS - (Chest & Arms) 3. GREECE - (Belly & Thighs) 4. ROME - (Legs) .............................................1. UK & USA (Lion) .............................................2. Russia (Bear) .............................................3. EU (Leopard) 5. ISLAM - (Feet & Toes)....4. Islam (Terrifying Beast) & UN (their belief system uniting religions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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