Revelation 13

[Spock]

Back to revelation 13

Verse 5:

5 The beast was given a mouth speaking proud words and blasphemies, and he was permitted to exercise ruling authority for forty-two months.

This verse seems to narrow the antichrist's ruling power to 3.5 years only, not 7 years.

Thus, it seems to me that when the abomination of desolation occurs, THEN the beast (ac) will be revealed for who he truly is- a power hungry mocker of god. I suppose Satan somehow possesses this dude much like he did judas before judas turned on Christ.

Up until this time, he probably is a decent joe doing some good things and not being such a hater.

Thoughts?

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock & rollinTHUNDER,

 

Now fellas I`ve done an overview of the Historic & Contemporary views so we can see clearly what they are saying.

 

 

HISTORIC VIEW

 

GLOBAL GOVERNMENT - The Revived Roman Empire. (including Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Medes & Persian, Greece, Rome)

 

Scriptural Support - NONE

Based on Man`s opinion of God`s symbols.

 

FALSE RELIGION - WHORE The Roman Catholic Church.

 

Scriptural Support - NONE

Based on Man`s opinion of God`s symbols.

 

(Note: Montana Marv honestly confessed (on the thread `America & ...`) that there were NO OTHER SCRIPTURES than the symbols.!!!!!!!!!)

 

 

 

 

CONTEMPORARY VIEW

 

GLOBAL GOVERNMENT - Islam (over 3 Super Powers - 1. British Com./ America 2. Russian Fed. 3. European Union)

 

Scriptural Support - Isa. 10: 24     31: 8    Micah 5: 5    Dan. 11: 36 - 45)

Based on God`s meaning for His symbols.

 

 

FALSE RELIGION - WHORE The religions of all the people (nations) united together. The United Nations of Religions. (the UN)

 

Scriptural support - James 4: 4   Rev. 17: 15

Based on God`s meaning for His symbols.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ERRORS

 

1. GLOBAL GOVERNMENT.

 

The Historical View errs in thinking that it can include `Assyria & Egypt,` in the list of World Rulers. God clearly shows us who the World Rulers are -

1. Babylon. 2. Medes & Persians. 3. Greece. 4. Rome. 5. Final Global Government.

If you include `Assyria & Egypt,` you would have to include the Mongolian Empire, the third Reich, the Ottoman Empire etc. but these are only large Empires but never World Rulers.

 

 

 

2. GLOBAL RELIGION.

 

Now with regard to the `Whore,` God describes her as the `Mother of harlots, `of all peoples, multitudes, nations & tongues.` (Rev. 17: 15) This means the religions of ALL the peoples, the Nations.  So when the Historic View says it is the Roman Catholic Church are they suggesting that the whole world will become part of the declining Roman Catholic Church?

 

All Religions means - Catholic, Protestant, Cults, Jehovah`s Witnesses, Mormons, New Agers, Hindus, Bai`hi`s,  Islamic, Masons, Satanists, Witches etc, etc.

 

And who has brought all these religions together? The United nations of religions, the UN. `Other One` has some good notes on this in `Countdown...` Other references are `Carl Teichrib of Forcing Change,` & `Berit Kjos of Crossroads.` The info is out there by those God has raise up to reveal this agenda. 

Edited June 7, 2014 by Marilyn C

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Spockster....

     Ah,so many ways to approach Revelation & how we approach it gives us different views... Just before these events ,in Chapter 12 we establish our view,the dragon as satan,most agree the woman is Israel & she gave birth to the child"Jesus".Looking as a description of the vision of events at history's end we see a final ,great persecution of the Jews stimulated by satan.As a series of  imagery we see those images intended to describe the hostility between good & evil....God & satan seeing the woman as the church & the entire description as symbolic of a timeless struggle.Then a  fururist sees the 1st beast as the anti-Christ & the 2nd as the false prophet.Together with satan they form a counterfeit trinity that tries to establish dominance over mankind before being destroyed at Christ's personal intervention(see Rev19:19-21)Back to historists view ,taking the 2 beasts as symbolic of anti-Christian gov't & false religion........One day ,with help  from the Holy Spirit I may know for sure which view is "the right view" or after I am as Christ is in my new glorified body-lol

     In verse 16 We are only told that a matrk on the hand or forehead will be required for a person to buy or sell in the lands that are controlled by the beast.As I explained the different approaches to interpretation the beast is identified by either the anti-Christ,a person or as anti-Christian gov't,I cannot see the latter because how would a gov't be thrown into the lake of fire later ?(see Rev 19:20)..Perhaps a supermarket checkout process may indicate the nature of the mark?Just like a scanner reads the price code printed on each grocery store item ,so a scanner may read a tattooed number on a hand or a forehead & automatically credit or debit a persons banking account.by making sure that only someone who has given allegiance to the beast is given a number,gov't could exercize complete & total control over citizens

      Then we have the 18th verse  & the meaning of 666...............no one can ever agree on the meaning of "the number of the beast"Some note the  #7 is the symbolic number of God,6 ben man's number,because it falls short of perfection.In both Hebrew & Greek ,letters had  numerical values.Aleph/Alpha was 1,Beth/Beta-2 & so on....so it's possible that 666 represents the numerical values of the true name of the beast or the anti-christ.the problem with that approach is that it is open to abuse.It was used in the 40's to justify the teaching that Hitler & mussolini,amongst others was the anti-Christ.

     Ultimately,nobody knows just what this numerical hint to the beast identity really means,we can onlly speculate & consider the different views

  So many prophetic utterances in the Holy Scriptures are understood after,not before,their fulfillment

        Just throwing some thoughts out there,God Bless you Brother,,,,,,it is an awesome chapter......just like every other chapter written in the Bible,,,,

Praise & Glory to God,indeed                                                                                                          With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Spock]

Hi Kwik,

Well, you must have been in my brain when you wrote this post because I too think like you did here- looking at more than one angle (perspective) to try to see what makes more sense.

The 666 part makes me chuckle because I haven't a clue except thinking like you- scanner of some sort. If 666 means anything more, beats me.

It does seem clearer to me that beast one is AC and beast two is false prophet. Both seem to be one particular person, and it does make sense to look upon them as the unholy trinity (satan, antichrist, and false prophet) to counterfeit the holy trinity as we know -

father, son, and Holy Spirit.

Not as easy reading is your post is my Aussie friend Marilyn's just before yours. I don't know why exactly, but for some reason I'm not feeling the interpretation of her post here. Maybe it's too deep for my dense mind. Or maybe I'm just tired. Sigh

In love,

Spock

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

 

Now my dear new friend, please tell me what is difficult about me asking for scriptures to support the historic side.  These are the answers I get ....

 

Spock said, `Hard to argue your interpretation (rT)  because it can be supported.`   (Where are the scriptures specifically saying Rev. Rome?)

rollingTHUNDER & Spock - `it`s fun speculating,....this sure resembles,....looks like....is Babel.....the 7 Empires....` (Again where, oh where are the specific scriptures saying those things. All I get is opinions, man`s interpretations, & move on to another topic.)

 

Is what I am asking so difficult? Yes it is because you have NO SCRIPTURES to support any of the historic view. That is what is muddling up your mind because you have believed this for so long that it is ingrained in your minds. To get those muddy waters clear you need first to admit, like Montana Marv that there are no other Scriptures (than the symbols) & realise that it is man`s speculations, opinions, resembles like, etc etc & NOT GOD`S MEANING which is in scripture. The Holy Spirit brings truth from His word not from man`s opinions. 

Edited June 7, 2014 by Marilyn C

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock & rollinTHUNDER,

 

God the author of the book of Revelation, as we know, desires for us to understand His Son more. Thus He has over 330 references to figures, shadows, symbols, types, etc  found in the Old Testament. Now God does not leave the interpretation of these to us, as our opinions are like belly buttons, - everyone has one!!!!  For example let us look at God`s meaning versus man`s opinion in regard to the woman in Rev. 17.

 

MAN`S OPINION

 

rT said concerning the woman, `this sure resembles the Roman Catholic Church.` And yes we can all see that resemblance, however that is based on our opinion & not God`s word.

 

 

GOD`S SYMBOL & MEANING

 

The woman had on her forehead - `on her forehead a name was written; Mystery Babylon the Great, the Mother of Prostitutes & of the Abominations of the earth.` (Rev. 17: 5)

God`s priests wore on their foreheads - `Holiness unto the Lord.` (Ex. 28: 36)

The `forehead,` represented character.

 

 

The woman`s garments, she was  `arrayed in purple & scarlet, & adorned with gold & precious stones......`  (Rev. 17: 4)

The priests garments were `gold & blue & purple & scarlet.....` with 12 precious stones....(Ex. 28: 1 - 21)

Note `blue,` was symbolic of Divinity. These garments represented their holy office of mediation, & received honour & respect.

 

 

Thus the NAME & GARMENTS represent the CHARACTER & OFFICE of the priests. The woman - false religion has an unholy charater & receives honor & respect from the leaders of the Global Government.

 

God`s word does not say the Roman Catholic Church is the woman but refers to ALL false religions - `peoples, multitudes, nations & tongues.` (Rev. 17: 15)

ALL religions as they are ALL unholy & ALL have an alliance with the leaders of the World System.

 

To single out the Roman Catholic Church is to be blinded to what Satan is really doing, subtly. He is bringing ONE BELIEF that is UNITING ALL RELIGIONS, - the strong delusion -

 

`the strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. ` (2 Tim. 8 - 12)

Edited June 7, 2014 by Marilyn C

[Bible_Gazer]

The last kingdom to rule was as far as Daniel 2 is concern is the Iron kingdom.

Which was Rome and the Holy Roman Empire.

So it got wounded, not dead yet.

Is to revive.

So as the bible and history - Rome is still a part of the Eighth beast Rev.17 its of the seven.(the last one)

How I see it so far.

[Montana Marv]

Spock

 

You wanted  be to contribute:

 

First of all there are three beasts mentioned.  1. The one coming out of the sea is an empire (nations), it has the same attributes as the leopard, the bear and the lion (Babylon, Meades and Persians and Greece).  Along with its own (iron).  2. One of the heads (leaders) of this first beast has a fatal wound which is healed, and the whole world follows him because his wound was healed.  3. The third beast is the False Prophet.

 

The beast with the fatal wound only has authority for 42 months (no more, no less).  This is a man, because he and the False Prophet are thrown alive into the Lake of Fire in Rev 19:20.

 

I believe this world leader is the one described in Dan 9:27 (he makes a seven year agreement, then breaks it with the A/D).  So this beast is in control for the first half the Daniels 70th Week.  Some one more powerful comes on the scene for the final 42 months (he is seen in Rev 16:13.  This same entity chases after the woman (Israel) after the A/D is set up Matt 24:15 and  (Rev 12:13, 14 - dragon for 42 months).

 

This is my take on Rev 13.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Spock......

    Ah dear Brother,you know me well (LOL) I always try  to  "keep it simple"........as I pray the Holy Spirit to reveal Gods Timeless Truth that I may have Wisdom & Understanding....He never seems to complicate matters but very gently tells us

 

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.        1Cor13:9-12

                                                                                                                                                  With love-in Christ,Kwik
 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Kwikphilly,

 

You so rightly highlighted `we know in part, we prophesy in part....` but how wonderful to know that God`s prophecy`s (the Bible) are truth - His word, prophetic, is all truth. And we can have great confidence in Him & His word. The enemy however would always try to undermine our trust & understanding of God`s word, saying -

 `it is all too hard, or we are not meant to know, or there are so many interpretations........` as Peter says -

 

`those who are untaught & unstable distort, as they do the rest of scripture to their own destruction. You therefore beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness, but GROW in the grace & knowledge of our Lord & Saviour, Jesus Christ.` (2 Peter 3: 16 - 18)

 

So to grow in knowing Christ we are told we need to -

 

`Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth......But refuse foolish & ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels....with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth.` (2 Tim. 2: 15,  23 - 25)

 

 

God desires us to come to the full knowledge of the truth of all God`s word, (Eph. 4: 13...) yet we have so many interpretations. Why? You again so rightly said - `Ah, so many ways to approach Revelation & how we approach it gives us different views...` Why? because they are all our opinions. Many a time I`ve had to (& still do) repent of MY OPINION placed over God`s word. Who do I think I am to be so proud, arrogant, stupid that I can tell God what He means in His word. I have to humble myself & ask His Holy Spirit to show me in His word what He means. His word explains His symbols.

 

Whenever we see symbols explained without other scriptures (God`s explanation) then we will only get confused. Why does God talk about being `tossed to & fro by every wind of doctrine,` (Eph. 4: 14) because we all like to have our opinion & to speculate. No wonder people are confused & blame God`s word or God saying, `We are not meant to know, God doesn`t want us to know.....` But God does desire us to know what He means, & as Spock said at the start it may mean going deeper. So let`s be encouraged & look to the Lord  for His meaning in His word & not `Mr. so-called expert or my opinion etc....` As Peter again guides us -

 

`And so we have the prophetic word (Bible) made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns & the morning star arises in your hearts.` (2 Peter 1: 19)

 

So.....is it man`s opinion, speculation......or are we paying heed to what God explains, His meaning in His word.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Marilyn C