Why rewards if heaven is the assured goal?

[Cross Reference]

Why of course. How did I know that?

Edited June 24, 2014 by Cross Reference

[Guest]

Please spare me your shallow interpretation of the opinions of others you embrace. I am not interested in wading through the various modern doctrines you've taken to yourself to prove that which, by your allegiance to what they espouse, will never allow to be proven to you. Re: Your list of Authors? Run from them! Most deny the power of God.

 

Oh we all certainly believe in "power of God", but if you have fallen for the Charismatic so-called gifts and are calling them the "power of God", the way I understand Scripture, you have sadly fallen for counterfeits of the miracles that GOD has done.  No I do not want to debate that subject, I have been down that road way too many times in the past with many others.  We will just have to agree to disagree on that subject.

 

~

 

It's Funny How My Beloved David Hunt Strongly Believed In Miracles

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

 

And Yet My Dear Doctor John (MacArthur) Seems To Seek

To Block The Same Holy Spirit From His Flock

(And Yes I Do Love And Respect

Dear Doctor John)

 

And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

 

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

 

For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

 

To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

 

To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

 

But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 1 Corinthians 12:6-11

 

Perhaps John And Company Are Trying To Keep

 

And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

 

And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people. Acts 6:7-8

 

The Flock All To Themselves?

 

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

 

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

 

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

 

But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

 

And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. Matthew 23:8-12

 

Perhaps?

[Cross Reference]

Hi Fres!! 

 

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them". Romans 1:17-19 (KJV)

 

How can the righteous withhold the truth of God and still be found, righteous by Him? Scary thought, isn't it?
 

Edited June 24, 2014 by Cross Reference

[Guest]

Hi Fres!! 

 

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them". Romans 1:17-19 (KJV)

 

How can the righteous withhold the truth of God and still be found, righteous by Him? Scary thought, isn't it?

 

 

Why Yes

 

He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

 

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

 

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

 

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

 

As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

 

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

 

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

 

Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:32-39

 

Yes It

 

For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

 

Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

 

Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

 

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Matthew 7:8-11

 

Is

 

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

 

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

 

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

 

I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. John 17:20-23

[Cross Reference]

 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise,

And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein,

and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:"

Hebrews 4:4-6 (KJV)

 

Unbelief??!! Whatta mean, "unbelief" when faith to believe is a "gift" and God's grace is "irresistible"??


 

Edited June 24, 2014 by Cross Reference

[OneLight]

Your last post is different than your previous post. At first, there was no mention of repentance, just that if we disobey, our lives no longer rest under His grace.

I agree with your last post, but notice the key is to remain in Him, continuously checking ourselves to see if remain in faith.

2 Corinthians 13:5 

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.

Let's clarify exactly what your Position is.  It appears you are saying that you personally believe that,

"Salvation is Grace through faith PLUS examining yourself frequently."

 

If that is what you believe, then what you believe is a TOTAL false Doctrine, and a Contradiction of what the Scriptures actually say!

 

You could of saved a lot of typing if you just started with the question and waited for an answer.

 

No, that is not what I believe.  Salvation is a one time thing, as we can read in Ephesians 2:8-10

 

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Once saved, we need to continue to examine ourselves to see if we have not turned from the truth, which is the scripture I provided, 2 Corinthians 13:5 .

You really should refrain from posting accusations until you know the full facts, then take it private if you wish to discuss it with a member.

[VCO]

wq

 

 

 

It's Funny How My Beloved David Hunt Strongly Believed In Miracles

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12

 

And Yet My Dear Doctor John (MacArthur) Seems To Seek

To Block The Same Holy Spirit From His Flock

(And Yes I Do Love And Respect

Dear Doctor John)

 

. . .

Perhaps?

 

 

 

I told you that I do not want to debate the so-called Charismatic gifts.  There would be no point in debating them.  

Our beliefs are as Rock Solid unmovable as yours probably are.  

 

Here are our beliefs about the Charismatic gifts in a nutshell.  Hopefully you will be able to see why there would be no point in debating them.

 

We believe that Charismatic Gifts exhibited today are absolutely not Biblical.

 

The so called Tongues are not done the way Apostles did them.  Every time the Apostles spoke in TONGUES, there were Unbelieving Jews present who heard everything they said in their own dialects.  In fact, we believe the Charismatic tongues do resemble Tongues of the ancient past, those of the Greek Mystery religions, who spoke in Ecstatic Tongues frequently.  In fact, Plato referred to it in the Worship of Zeus as Divine Ecstasy, and stated:  "It was as if I linked up with the god."

 

We believe the Miracle Healers of today are using the power of suggestion to bring temporary relief of symptoms, but when outsider Seminary Students investigated the healing of terminal diseases, of one very famous Faith Healer, every one of those names given to them by the Faith Healer were subsequently found to have had their symptoms return and had died of their terminal disease that the Faith Healer supposedly healed them of.  

 

We believe the Miracle sign gifts were for the APOSTLES only to validate to the Jews that the new WORDS from GOD were genuinely from GOD, just like when the Prophets did miracles.  When the New Testament was complete the purpose of the miracle sign gifts ceased and so did the sign gifts.  In a revival movement in 1906 the charismatic movement began, only their miracle gifts were not done in the same manor as the Apostles, therefore we believe they are counterfeits of the real gifts that the Apostles had.

 

Mark 16:20 (HCSB)
²⁰  And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs. 

 

 

Does Scriptures say there will be miracle sign gifts in the end times, sure:

 

2 Thessalonians 2:9 (ASV)
⁹  even he, whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 

 

We believe what Dave Hunt said, "You are setting yourselves up to believe the lies."; accurately describes the Charismatic Movement.

 

Yes Dave Hunt believes in miracles the same as we do. They COME FROM GOD, MOSTLY IN ANSWER TO PRAYER.

We believe Modern Day Faith Healers, are self-deceived at best, and many are religious con-artists.

 

We believe the greater works that we do than Christ is witnessing, which leads unbelievers to eternal life, which is greater than Jesus raising Lazarus to physical life only to physically die again.

 

So you should be able to see that there is NO need for us to debate or discuss this subject, it ALWAYS ends in a stalemate, and an agreement to agree to disagree.

 

No I will not respond to another post on this subject, and I certainly have no interest in arguing with you about our differences in what we believe about the Charismatic Gifts.

Edited June 25, 2014 by VCO

[VCO]

 

 

You could of saved a lot of typing if you just started with the question and waited for an answer.

 

No, that is not what I believe.  Salvation is a one time thing, as we can read in Ephesians 2:8-10

 

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Once saved, we need to continue to examine ourselves to see if we have not turned from the truth, which is the scripture I provided, 2 Corinthians 13:5 .

You really should refrain from posting accusations until you know the full facts, then take it private if you wish to discuss it with a member.

 

 

AMEN to that!  And I am sorry I jumped to that conclusion, but I have been debating a lot of others lately (mostly on another site) with very similar posts, and they were DEFINATELY trying to justify adding works to Grace, before you are saved.

[Guest]

Credit

 

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

 

Where Credit

 

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

 

Is Due

 

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. Luke 17:10

 

You See

 

Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. Zechariah 4:6

~

 

The greater works that we do than Christ is witnessing, which leads unbelievers to eternal life, which is greater than Jesus raising Lazarus to physical life only to physically die again.

 

~

 

Beloved, The Works

 

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:46-47

 

We

 

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. John 15:3-4

 

Do

 

These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. John 15:11-12

 

See?

 

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

[Guest]

Ends In A

 

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Romans 8:26-27

 

Hallelujah~!

 

What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

 

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Romans 9:14-16

 

~

 

....So see, there is NO need for us to debate....

 

 

....or discuss this subject, it ALWAYS ends in a stalemate....
 

 

....No I will not respond to another post on this subject, and I certainly will not argue with you....

 

 

Beloved

 

Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. Proverbs 27:17

 

Sorry To Hear

 

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11

 

Of This Aversion To Discussion (Without Condemnation)

 

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:16-17

 

Kind Of Makes Me Wonder Why One Would Post In This Thread

 

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1

 

And Not In The Fellowship Forums

 

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:24-25

 

(Fishing Anyone?)

 

Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

 

It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

 

As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion:

 

for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore. Psalms 133

 

~

 

Post Early Post Often

 

And Keep On Keeping On

 

~

 

And Be Blessed

 

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Romans 8:11

 

Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe