pawz Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 257 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 58 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2014 Hi, This topic may have already have been covered ( I am new to Worthy), but I could not see a mention of it when I searched, so felt it would be useful to raise it, just to inform those who might be interested. A few months a go I saw a video on a Christian forum (and Youtube) which claimed that the Greek letters which spell out 666 in Revelation 13:18 were actually Arabic letters written as an invocation to honour Allah as God, and commonly seen today written on flags, headbands, armbands etc by militant Islamists. The claim is that John saw these letters in the vision actually written in Arabic, as the name and number of the beast ( Rev 13:18), but he thought they were Greek letters and so wrote them down in the Greek as 666. If you have seen that video, or similar, and found it to be persuasive (as I did initially), please know that deeper enquiries soon weaken the claim that John actually saw the Arabic Basmala motif and wrote it in Greek. As a rather low level Greek scholar myself, I soon concluded that he could not have done so. Why? Because when John wrote the letter to the churches in Asia Minor in AD 70 (or whatever time you are comfy with), the Greek form of writing was still in the uncial - CAPITAL LETTERS. For the claims of the video to work as described, John would have had to write ( and recognise) a flowing, cursive script - but that did not come into use for formal manuscripts until somewhere around the 9th century AD. Moreover, John knew he was to write a number ( Greek for 'number' is 'arithmos') and 'arithmos' appears in the verse three times, and that was what John wrote - a number. The video I saw appears to indicate the cursive form of the Greek letters shown as an example of matching with the Arabic was taken from the Codex Vaticanus - but that too is wrong as Vaticanus was also written in uncial, and anyway, did not include Revelation in the body of that work, though a codex was added (called codex 1957) centuries later which is said to include parts of Revelation written in miniscule. I found a page written by a Christian chap who expresses an opinion confirming this view, and also shows a fragment of Rev 13:18 in the uncial - and another fragment showing '616'....http://ericsowell.com/blog/2008/7/21/revelation-13-the-number-of-the-beast-and-strange-muslim-claims oh, and this one too....http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2009/12/walid-shoebat-youtube-video-on-the-mark-of-the-beast/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted June 22, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,175 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,479 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Hi pawz, Glad to see you up & running on topics of interest. Now concerning this claim. I`m glad you said it was misleading. Very interesting how you explained it. I would also add that since God the Father is the author of His revelation of His Son Jesus, then He would know exactly what He wanted written in His word. (not John thought they were......) 666 is actually the numeric summary of Satan`s character which is what Rev. 12 is about. I may write more on that later. Hope to see you around here. Blessings, Marilyn. (also a Commonwealther) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawz Posted June 23, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 257 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 58 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 Hi Marilyn, thank you for the response ( one is never sure quite how something will be taken!). There was more that I could add, but I felt I had made the main point. I did wonder if someone might say 'well, OK, cursive script wasn't in use then ( in Greek OR the Arabic I think, though might be mistaken on the latter), but maybe the Lord only intended that the similarities ( such as they are) would be recognised in the time of the end when militant Islam and television would bring the Basmala right into our living rooms. I still would not see this to be a likely scenario given that most Christian folk would not know even the Greek well enough, never mind Arabic, to see contrived similarities - but we are all different, and some of the points made in the videos I watched do make a good case for Islam being the beast.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,175 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,479 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hi pawz, We are all waiting & watching with great interest as scripture unfolds before our eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawz Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 257 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 58 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 indeed we are Marilyn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted July 20, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Hi Marilyn, thank you for the response ( one is never sure quite how something will be taken!). There was more that I could add, but I felt I had made the main point. I did wonder if someone might say 'well, OK, cursive script wasn't in use then ( in Greek OR the Arabic I think, though might be mistaken on the latter), but maybe the Lord only intended that the similarities ( such as they are) would be recognised in the time of the end when militant Islam and television would bring the Basmala right into our living rooms. I still would not see this to be a likely scenario given that most Christian folk would not know even the Greek well enough, never mind Arabic, to see contrived similarities - but we are all different, and some of the points made in the videos I watched do make a good case for Islam being the beast.... I've heard this theory before about 666 actually being a misinterpretation of Arabic script. But your explanation of why God would allow this 'Arabic' mistake is a great explanation which I had never thought of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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