Guest shiloh357 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Shiloh, I do not want to be rude here, but the verses I pasted speak for themselves. I can see NYC written all over them. I'm not saying it is NYC, but for now, I'm open to that interpretation. Yes I realize you see NYC in them, but that doesn't automatically mean they speak for themselves. That is an assertion that you need to build on. What is apparent to you might not be apparent to others. Babylon isn't even close to a large body of water (sea), and this can't mean a river. Yes, but none of the passages which you cite above mention the city in question as being near a large body of water. So... again, I really don't see how you can claim this has anything to do with NYC. Anyhow, what is obvious to me may not be obvious to you. Fair enough, but don't forget, even you agreed, much (or some) of Revelation is symbolic, not to be take literal. This is one of them (to me). But if these verses are symbolic of NYC and the symbolism is so obvious that they speak for themselves, then it really shouldn't be to hard to explain or elaborate on how you arrived at that conclusion. So far, you have alluded to a large body of water and that isn't even mentioned in the texts you provided so it really calls into question how you are approaching these texts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted June 28, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2014 Blessings Everyione Years ago I made myself crazy with Revelation & other one reminded me of the time I did research on the cities that claimed to be "the city built on 7 hills",,,,This is not the list from my studies (it is actually quite a lot longer).....this is from Wikipedia......I just think it is something else......LOL .... With love -in Christ,Kwik BTW,Spock.......thank you,,,,,,feelings are mutual,you are too kind Glory to God! http://www.askelm.com/prophecy/p000201.htm Jerusalem was also known as the "City of seven hills". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted June 28, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,816 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2014 Blessings Salty! Yes,Jerusalem is on the list.....you probably didn't notice it under "Asia".....right in the middle. I am very curious.....how did you come up with your username?Is it your nickname?.......I would like to guess it is because you are "the salt of the earth"..... With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted June 28, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2014 jumping in here with an observation, I dont know which Babylon is Babylon (? kwim) however, something I have noticed and would like to bring to light - Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. reminds me of.... Matt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. This would lead me to believe that its Rome,,Thoughts? Not really a link, simply because our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave us a whole lot more information to weigh in order to know which city He was showing us as the end time Babylon harlot "great city" in Revelation. The working of the dragon and "another beast" of Rev.13, and the "ten horns" of Rev.17 being ten kings is directly linked to the prophecies in Daniel about the "little horn" and ten horn kings and events from Dan.8 thru Dan.12. And per the Book of Daniel that prophecy is involving Jerusalem in a fallen worship state for the very end of this world. In our Lord's Book of Revelation, the "great city" phrase occurs 11 times. The first time in Rev.11:8 it is pointing directly to Jerusalem as the "great city" (because it says where our Lord Jesus was crucified), while spiritually comparing it to Sodom and Egypt. The next 9 times "great city" occurs in Revelation it is related to the beast and false worship. The final time "great city" appears in Rev.21:10 as the holy Jerusalem, descending out of Heaven from God. If that is not enough of a clue by our Lord that He is pointing to Jerusalem, then once again, the prophecies in the Book of Daniel which clearly mark Jerusalem are hard-linked to the events in Revelation, which means it has to be Jerusalem. Another clue many miss in Rev.18 is what the Babylon harlot says about herself, saying, "I sit a queen, and am no widow..." (Rev.18:7). She is saying she is royalty and is married, ruling as a queen, meaning married to a king. That is a very important clue about the end time Babylon harlot "great city" because involving Jerusalem, the subject of who Jerusalem is married to 'spiritually' is a very... big deal... per God's Word. Per Ezekiel 16 God said He married Jerusalem. In Isaiah 54 that spiritual idea shows up again, and in Rev.21 it is one of the major subjects involving God as husband and Jerusalem as His bride. Just so happens that per the Daniel prophecy about the ten kings of Rev.17, and the "little horn" that is to arise among the ten horns, that little horn is... a king that is to appear in Jerusalem for the last days of this world. Thus our Lord Jesus has given us that contrast between a fake king and Himself as The True King also within those Daniel, Matthew 24, and Revelation Scriptures. Stack on top of all that, our Lord Jesus linked the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel directly to Jerusalem in His Olivet Discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13. Our Lord Jesus warned of a coming pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem with that, which is still yet to occur today (Matt.24:23-26). Apostle Paul repeated that specific warning in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 that false one coming to sit in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God, and exalting himself above all that is even called God, or that is worshiped, which by that directly links to that pseudo-Christ (KJV "false Christs" is Greek pseudochristos in the NT manuscripts) Jesus warned of in Matt.24:23-26. So people can come to forums like this and claim the end time Babylon harlot "great city" is somewhere other than Jerusalem, yet it just won't add up once the direct associations with Jerusalem are weighed from Bible Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted June 28, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2014 Blessings Salty! Yes,Jerusalem is on the list.....you probably didn't notice it under "Asia".....right in the middle. I am very curious.....how did you come up with your username?Is it your nickname?.......I would like to guess it is because you are "the salt of the earth"..... With love-in Christ,Kwik Because I am... a bit 'salty', my character that is. I just used that nickname when coming here. I have other nicknames too, but I best not mention them here ( ). Blessings to you in Christ Jesus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 28, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2014 Blessings Salty! Yes,Jerusalem is on the list.....you probably didn't notice it under "Asia".....right in the middle. I am very curious.....how did you come up with your username?Is it your nickname?.......I would like to guess it is because you are "the salt of the earth"..... With love-in Christ,Kwik Because I am... a bit 'salty', my character that is. I just used that nickname when coming here. I have other nicknames too, but I best not mention them here ( ). Blessings to you in Christ Jesus! Hi salty, Yes you are, salty. Even when I've disagreed with you, I enjoy reading you. I always know where you stand. I like that. Just wanted to say two quick things: 1. Shabbat shalom. (Peace to you on this day of rest) 2. I strongly disagree with you about Jerusalem being the great city. Your 11 references from the book of Rev is very faulty and illogical when you read the verses in context. I'm not going to try to convince you but I will just tell you this- it's either Rome or NYC. Of course, who am I? I'm merely a voice crying out on the wilderness.......... (((((Man hug))))))) Spock out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 The notion that Jerusalem is Babylon in Revelation 18 is false. God loves Jerusalem and says so all over the Bible. Jesus said: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!” Luke 13:24. It should also be noted that Jerusalem is bound to God by virtue of an eternal covenant and God made promises to Israel to preserve Israel in spite of her disobedience. The destruction of the city of Babylon is so complete in Revelation 18, that if Babylon is actually Jerusalem, it would require God to be unfaithful to His promises to Israel/Jerusalem. To argue that Jerusalem is Babylon and will be utterly destroyed by God is to call into question God's integrity. One of the dead giveaways that this is not Jerusalem being described in Revelation 17,18 is the fact that the world will mourn their destruction. Currently the world would like to see nothing less than destruction of Jerusalem. The world would not mourn Jerusalem's destruction. They would rejoice over it. Jerusalem is nowhere prophesied to be a major economic power in the end times. Some say Babylon is Jerusalem, But the angel refers to Babylon on the Euphrates throughout chapters 17-18. Cross reference Rev.17:1 with Jer. 51:13; 17:2, 4 with Jeremiah 51:7:; 18:7 with Is. 47:5; 18:2 with Is. 13:21 and Jer. 51:8; 18:4 with Jer. 50:15 and 51:24; 18:21 with Jer. 51:63:64. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted June 28, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2014 Blessings Salty! Yes,Jerusalem is on the list.....you probably didn't notice it under "Asia".....right in the middle. I am very curious.....how did you come up with your username?Is it your nickname?.......I would like to guess it is because you are "the salt of the earth"..... With love-in Christ,Kwik Because I am... a bit 'salty', my character that is. I just used that nickname when coming here. I have other nicknames too, but I best not mention them here ( ). Blessings to you in Christ Jesus! Hi salty, Yes you are, salty. Even when I've disagreed with you, I enjoy reading you. I always know where you stand. I like that. Just wanted to say two quick things: 1. Shabbat shalom. (Peace to you on this day of rest) 2. I strongly disagree with you about Jerusalem being the great city. Your 11 references from the book of Rev is very faulty and illogical when you read the verses in context. I'm not going to try to convince you but I will just tell you this- it's either Rome or NYC. Of course, who am I? I'm merely a voice crying out on the wilderness.......... (((((Man hug))))))) Spock out I really wish it were anywhere else except Jerusalem! But I well know by God's Word that is the city that Satan most desires in wanting to be God, and worshipped as God. And really, the "great city" pointer is just a mild reference. I understand that the whole of those Scriptures must be addressed, even along with the rest of God's Word. I don't think my writings point to leaving out the rest of God's Word, one can always find me pulling many Bible Scriptures together in my explanations (which I've sometimes received complaints about). I will even go so far as to say the area of Jerusalem was where God's Garden of Eden was once established on earth, since Gen.2 reveals God's River flowing out of Eden to feed four other rivers upon the earth, and that River is to return to this earth per Ezekiel 47 and Rev.22, which is shown in both as being about the area of Jerusalem. Moreover, our brother Apostle Paul made comparison to the earthly Jerusalem, which is still in bondage today with her children vs. the Heavenly Jerusalem, showing us how there must be a change from how Jerusalem is today to become The New Jerusalem when Jesus returns (Gal.4). Thus today's Jerusalem is still subject to the bondage of false worship as it has been since Christ's first coming, sieged by pagans many times in its history (27 so far), and still half of it in possession by Islam, and still subject to U.N. manipulations. I do not see any of those kind of comparisons with NY or Rome. I do not honor any pope any more than I would any other believer on Christ Jesus either. Now if we're talking politics regarding NY, I'm well aware of the ties with the New World Order globalist crowd. But that is not just in NY, it's in Europe and the middleast, and Russia also, and within the U.N. and its member nations. And what peace is the U.N. working for? Peace in Jerusalem. So I think it very difficult even in today's world politics to get away from Jerusalem as being the settling question too. Peace to you too brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Fortunately, Salty, no one here is going to accept the false teaching that Jerusalem is Babylon. The hermeneutics behind that notion is severely flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted June 28, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 28, 2014 Fortunately, Salty, no one here is going to accept the false teaching that Jerusalem is Babylon. The hermeneutics behind that notion is severely flawed. That's an opinion, granted that. But does it fit Scripture, that's the real question? It cannot just be a matter of not wanting the Scriptures to point to Jerusalem because of any bias one may have. It must be properly approached from the stance of our Heavenly Father and His son in His Word of Truth. I personally am immovable on the matter, for me I 'know' it is about Jerusalem, as per Scripture and not some personal bias. And so far, the only rebuttal I've heard against what all I covered in my post #46 has been the 11 times mention of the phrase "great city", associated once for sure with city where our Lord Jesus was crucified (Rev.11:8), and with The New Jerusalem descending to earth out of Heaven from God (Rev.21). And even the rebuttal on that cannot remove those Rev.11:8 and 21:10 references to Jerusalem as the "great city". Yet that "great city" reference was only one of the Scripture subjects I presented of why the Rev. Babylon harlot is about Jerusalem for the end times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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