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A few question about Job?


FreeinChrist

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He got replacement livestock and kids.  God left him off better than he started.  Not sure what the problem is.

you might ask his dead kids about what the problem is.

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Just had a few questions about the Book of Job, and wanted to get others opinions.

 

God tells satan that He (God) was moved against Job, by satan without cause Job 2:3, why do you think God would allow satan to do this?

 

At the end of Job, God talks to Job, but never explains to Job why he had to suffer.  Yet God is so great in Job's presence that he repents, of his questioning God; so why do I (we) as Christian(s) who know all that Jesus Christ suffered for us, so easily forget and murmured against God, after all that He has done for me (us)?  Speaking of myself more than anybody else here.

 

And the final question why do you think God never explained to Job why he had suffered so greatly?

 

 

Feel free to answer one or as many as you want.

 

There are several lessons from the book of Job. 

 

Primary of them is the recognition that the actions of God do not have to be explained, justified or communicated to us.

 

In other words - IT'S NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

 

Do you trust God?  If you do, then there is no reason to question His decisions or methods.    If you don't, then it doesn't matter anyway because God isn't about to argue points with anyone.   God is God, after all.

 

Is this a difficult point to understand?   Do we need to be rocket scientists to figure this one out?   No, on both counts.

 

THE POINT is the reliance of faith on the part of he who is dedicated unto God.    THE POINT is that the actions of God are none of our business.  None at all.

 

Job wasn't patient and Job wasn't happy about the situation at all, but Job didn't accuse God of injustice.    That's the second point, BTW.

God is just.   Always.   In the end, there is no one who can question that point.   Except perhaps the generic fool who thinks that he alone possesses God-like qualities and that the Almighty is only some sort of extra-human vending machine that owes everyone a happy day.

 

Lest anyone think that my assertion is bogus, I suggest you review Genesis chapter 3 and relearn the consequences of the first sin.  Adam and Eve became as gods - determining good and evil for themselves.   In other words, they came to believe that God's business was their own and that God had no authority to take action in the world without human prior approval.

 

It doesn't work like that.

 

The purpose of the book of Job is to transmit to the reader the spiritual concept that those things which happen to us, as directed by God, are none of our business.

 

"No one knows what history holds, but we know who holds history."

- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. 

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... 

 

PS

As a departure from the current theme, ask yourself if you REALLY believe the Bible to be true.....all its words true.....

 

yes or no.......

 

then read Job chapter 41

 

Right out of nowhere this really odd chapter digresses from the narrative and commences a description of a creature most believe to be entirely fantasy.  It describes this creature in great detail, greater than most texts of its age.

 

It describes two types of the same creature.   One lives in the sea and one lives on land.

 

The legendary sea monster it calls Leviathon was not a whale.  Read the description carefully and you'll see that it compares a whale hunt to those who try to hunt the sea monster Leviathon.   There's no comparison in terms of danger to those who try to kill it.  The Biblical text even goes so far as to openly mock those who think hunting Leviathon is just like hunting a common whale.

 

The land animal is not named, but is generally known by its ancient moniker - dragon.  Yup, this critter described in Job 41 has armored scales and breathes fire.  There's absolutely no confusion about the description of this critter.  It's a full fledged, fire breathing, scaly, dangerous dragon.

 

If it looks like a duck and if it quacks like a duck, then........

 

Is the Bible mistaken?  Are the words true, or do we need to pretend its an allegory of something else....in effect calling God a liar?

 

There's always a point to a Bible story and the point to this one is that only God could kill the dragon animal.   Later in the Bible, Revelation in fact, God appears to be the only one who can defeat the spiritual equivalent of the Job 41 animal.   Not for nothing is the dragon a figure of the great satan.......a creature only God can kill.

 

Read it again for the first time, pilgrim.

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Duggerfan, you asked why Elihu was not condemned with Job's 3 accusing friends. It is answered in Job 32:1-3 So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. Then the wrath of Elihu---was aroused against Job; HIS WRATH WAS AROUSED BECAUSE HE JUSTIFIED HIMSELF RATHER THAN GOD. Also against his 3 friends his wrath was aroused, because they had found no answer and yet they had condemned Job.

Then Elihu told Job that he had uttered words without knowledge in 35:16. [Job had declaired that in spite of his righteousnes God had taken away his justice. in 30:20-21 He even accuses God of not answering his cries and for being cruel to him.]

In 33:23-30 Elihu even speaks of a Mediator who will ask God to redeem his soul and from the pit that he may be enlightened with the light of life. In 36 Elihu speaks of God's goodness, His being just, his power and majesty; then he speaks of God's wonderous works.

That is why Elihu was not condemned along with Job's 3 friends and even Job himself. In Job 40 God asks: Shall the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him? He who rebukes God, let him answer it.

V.8. Would you indeed annul My judgements? Would you condemn me that you may be justified?

Wow! pretty heavy stuff! I have had Job's 3 friends and have been there with all of my self righteousness. I don't vindicate myself anymore but ask God to be my Vindicator. And I have seen my filthy, stinking self righteousness as abhorable in the eyes of both God and man. I felt so low I wanted to start my Christian life all over again.

I used to beat myself up whenever I fell on my face and sinned. I expected myself to be better than that! God asked me if my judgements were higher than His. He had forgiven me when I first repented and had declaired me clean, so why did I continue to condemn myself as if He didn't have the authoritive final word? Did that ever shut me up!

In 42:3 Job admits that he uttered that which he did not understand, things to wonderful for him, that he did not know. This tells me that even when we are going through severe hardship or pain and don't understand why we are suffering, we should always exhalt and vindicate God. And He doesn't need a reason for allowing it all. But we should never doubt His love for us. Even when He chastens us it is because He loves us and He corrects us to produce good fruit. His pruning is to remove the center of the tree, our self centered nature to allow His light to all branches; it produces larger fruit. He is a good, righteous and merciful God. He has promised to never leave us or forsake us, even though I may feel like He has. I can't trust my feelings; I can trust God's integrity and the promises in His Word. He can use all things for good--even if I never live to see it.

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Of course Im no expert, but recently I read job a couple times within the past , well, short time, and what I got out of it had something to do with God glorifying himself to Satan, and also taking pride in showing how his beloved servent job would not curse Him, just as he said Job wouldn't, but satan said job would.  Sounds funny to have someone go thru that to show them off.  After all, it is supposed to be all about God, not us. 

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Of course Im no expert, but recently I read job a couple times within the past , well, short time, and what I got out of it had something to do with God glorifying himself to Satan, and also taking pride in showing how his beloved servent job would not curse Him, just as he said Job wouldn't, but satan said job would.  Sounds funny to have someone go thru that to show them off.  After all, it is supposed to be all about God, not us.

Hi All,

Sounds like we need a serious study on the book of Job - lots of questions here!

1. Why does God allow satan to do this to Job? There's been many answers and in my estimation some good ones but I'm not completely sure all are satisfied with them

2. God allowed Job to suffer but never tells him why? Again answers but I get the impression not all are satisfied.

3. Why is Elihu was not condemned along with Job's 3 friends? Some opinions on that as well.

4. What with chapter 41 and Leviathon? Does that make it allegory?

Did I miss any other questions?

In Christ, Pat

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Hi Pat, that sounds great to me, a study on the Book of Job, but this was just to see what other thoughts, some of those questions I asked I already had ideas too, just want to see how they lined up with what others thought.  While a couple still elude me, but got some good perspective to look closely at now.  Just trying to follow this advice:

Where no counsel is, the people fail: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.    Psalms 11:14

 

Again I really appreciate everyone thoughts.

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Just had a few questions about the Book of Job, and wanted to get others opinions.

God tells satan that He (God) was moved against Job, by satan without cause Job 2:3, why do you think God would allow satan to do this?

The foundations of context must be remembered (all men are sinners and none righteous)… so it is also with

Job. You may say then why does God say this:

Job 1:8

8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job,

that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man,

one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

KJV

Romans 3:23

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

KJV

Romans 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by

sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

KJV

It is understood in the line of scarificers from God first exampling in the covering of nakedness down thru

the Godly linage of ->to Job

Job 1:5

5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job

sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt

offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my

sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

KJV

So we find God is justified by The Sacrifice of Himself by the giving of The Son Who sacrificed Himself by

death on the cross to forgive sin and remember no more …the only form of righteous man can have that of

The Son's Life given for us as a life of our own… God is using cross reality not yet come but as though it had

>for it had< though not yet come! When we in Adam sinned we gave control of this world that God had given

us to satan -> so satan using what was his brought accusation against Job. For satan cannot understand the

power of the Christ of God ->(being this) we are made able to give up all that we have come into, that which is

now belonging to satan, to receive that only formed by God's Word of promise that satan can never enter…

this is the main thrust of understanding for us to glean today from Job and how Job repented for God brought

Job into the understanding that the only Holy, Pure, Undefiled, Righteousness was in God alone and all else is

in need of His Grace of Covering that our righteousness will be that of His Righteousness!

 

At the end of Job, God talks to Job, but never explains to Job why he had to suffer. Yet God is so great in Job's presence that he repents, of his questioning God;

Satan has the right, so shown us by God, to bring against us what we have given satan to be over us

                                                                                                                                      >this world and our bodies<

but in the confines of what The Lord allows him to use… do not forget the temptations of satan to The

Son where The Father allowed satan to use all the world and even Jesus' physical life as means to turn

The Holy Son of God but could not… It was by every Word that God has said whereby Life becomes eternal... 

 

so why do I (we) as Christian(s) who know all that Jesus Christ suffered for us, so easily forget and murmured against God, after all that He has done for me (us)? Speaking of myself more than anybody else here.

Because we stand in our own strength as habit from 1st birth instead of Spiritual reliance of 2nd birth written

thus:

Gal 5:16-17

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and

these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that

ye would.

KJV

Gal 5:25

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

KJV

 

And the final question why do you think God never explained to Job why he had suffered so greatly?

God did… His presence of Love for Job opened Job's heart to the eternal truth that the world or the things

in the world were not worthy to be weighed out in the considerations of the eternal things of God…

Love, Steven

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BTW Trinitron, was that a serious question?  You can't replace your family.  Yes, Job did wind up with more than he had to begin with, but he lost his children.  If it was just possessions, I could see your point, but that was an awful thing to have happen

 

~

 

Beloved, He Never Lost

 

But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. 2 Samuel 12:33

 

His First Children

 

He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err. Mark 12:27

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In engineering the last phase of your design is to prove it out by rigorous testing and tweak out the imperfections and things which can be reliability issues down the road. Is that not what God did here.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Step

 

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:17

 

By Step

 

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 1 Peter 1:7

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One other point that is brought out in Job is the value of compassion and listening. It's easy to say to a faceless screen that "God is sovereign" (which is absolutely true!), but it is of no comfort to the person enduring distress. Job's three friends, even if their shallow reap-what-you-sow message were completely valid, delivered their message in a way that completely ignored Job's situation and his pleas. Their theology was correct (we do reap what we sow), but incomplete (God is merciful). That in itself is a convicting insight- that we can be correct but if lacking as complete a picture as we should, God is displeased with us. Study to show yourselves approved, indeed.

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