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babylonisfalling

Preparing the Spirit, Heaven and Hell

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Almost every assertion we make only begets a new question. If we claim that heaven is a spiritual existence with God, then what is hell? We can't really call it a spiritual existence without God because God is omnipresent, existing in all places at all times. Even the unsaved will spend eternity with God then. Hell may be better described as an eternal existence against God, an eternity of living in unchanging, irrevocable opposition against that which you can never change, the overwhelming presence of God's omnipotent Spirit.

Mankind's ongoing problem is that we are born as creatures of the flesh, and as such, we are in natural opposition to things of the spirit. We live in the flesh which goes against the grain of the spirit. And since God is the One True Spirit, we end up in a natural, lifelong opposition to Him. This is the battle between spirit and flesh, between good and evil that we are all destined to fight. It is an internal Armageddon going on inside all of us. This battle going on within the hearts of men could well be in perfect accordance with God's plan for us. This battle in and for the hearts of men may be how all flesh is eventually brought into willing subjugation to the greater Spirit, the Spirit of the one, true and eternal God.

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Your link has links to mormon stuff. Are you mormon?

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This misses a very important verse.

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Those who have Christ have the ability to do all things through Him that are in accordance to His will. Scripture is what we have been given to guide us through life onto death, and He will try our life at the Bema seat.

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I stumbled upon this thread in my browsing and think it's worthy of continued discussion.

On 6/29/2014 at 2:59 PM, babylonisfalling said:

If we claim that heaven is a spiritual existence with God, then what is hell? We can't really call it a spiritual existence without God because God is omnipresent, existing in all places at all times. Even the unsaved will spend eternity with God then. Hell may be better described as an eternal existence against God, an eternity of living in unchanging, irrevocable opposition against that which you can never change, the overwhelming presence of God's omnipotent Spirit.

This is an astute observation! I'm not a Biblical scholar, but it seems to me that all things originate (directly or indirectly) from God, and that all things, to a degree, require God to sustain them. For example, if God were to ever truly "forget" someone then it seems that someone would vanish not only from current existence but would never have existed to begin with! By extension, anything that exists, or has existed, or will exist must necessarily do so under God's purview. Thus even though God may not desire sin he nonetheless allows it. As pertains hell, this would mean that God exists within hell itself. Even there, He is not entirely absent.

What would be the point to this? One is left with two possible conclusions: either God, for whatever reason, wants sinners to suffer for eternity with no possibility of redemption or God doesn't want sinners to suffer for eternity with no possibility of redemption. If these weren't the alternatives then God might as well "forget" that hell and all its occupants exist thus allowing both to forever cease to exist. So if God wants sinners to suffer for eternity then can this be considered either good or just? I find it difficult to accept that. So I am left with only one conclusion: God's redemptive powers extend even to sinners in hell.

And this takes me back to the quote below: 

On 6/29/2014 at 2:59 PM, babylonisfalling said:

Hell may be better described as an eternal existence against God, an eternity of living in unchanging, irrevocable opposition against that which you can never change, the overwhelming presence of God's omnipotent Spirit.

Here we have a situation when sinners reside in hell not because God damns them to be there, but rather because sinners choose hell while they continue to struggle against God's mercy. This seems like a plausible explanation to me. All comments welcome.

 

 

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On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2014 at 5:19 PM, OneLight said:

This misses a very important verse.

 

2 Corinthians 5:17

 

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Those who have Christ have the ability to do all things through Him that are in accordance to His will. Scripture is what we have been given to guide us through life onto death, and He will try our life at the Bema seat.

One Light , you been missing for quite some time .   Where are you .

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7 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

One Light , you been missing for quite some time .   Where are you .

I stop by from time to time to see what is being discussed.  Most of what is talked about I have already commented on, so I let others voice their thoughts.

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Your question was answered in another topic elsewhere.

Psalm 139:7-8 says that even if King David made his bed in sheol, god would be there.

So from this we can infer that god is ever present, and fully aware who he judged and put there.

With that being said, I want to make a differentiation between Hades and the lake of fire. In the book of revelation, it specifically says hades gets thrown INTO the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14)

 

So, its interesting to note that there are 3 locations listed in the bible that many people refer to as hell:

Sheol

Lake of Fire

Death

 

The idea that there are multiple places, where god is present and fully aware, tells us that hell is a place of... varying punishments depending on who is being punished.

Edited by Archangel Thyos
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@babylonisfalling &

@LearningToLetGo

I think both of you are on point. But rather than  use the words “Hell is a opposition to God”

“Hell is contrary to God”

For those individuals that are there, are there because they have chosen that which is contrary to “God” or “goodness”. For in eternity God will be everywhere and goodness will be everywhere. But these individuals that have chosen contrary can only experience “goodness” as their highest contrary and “fire” is the expression of the highest contrary. So for all eternity they can only experience “God” or goodness as they highest contrary which is expressed as fire. 

For scripture says; “God is a consuming fire”

but to whom? 

To those that have chosen contrary (or in opposition) to God.  

(my 2 cents worth)

much love in Christ, Not me 

 

Edited by Not me
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On 6/29/2014 at 5:59 PM, babylonisfalling said:

Almost every assertion we make only begets a new question. If we claim that heaven is a spiritual existence with God, then what is hell? We can't really call it a spiritual existence without God because God is omnipresent, existing in all places at all times. Even the unsaved will spend eternity with God then. Hell may be better described as an eternal existence against God, an eternity of living in unchanging, irrevocable opposition against that which you can never change, the overwhelming presence of God's omnipotent Spirit.

Mankind's ongoing problem is that we are born as creatures of the flesh, and as such, we are in natural opposition to things of the spirit. We live in the flesh which goes against the grain of the spirit. And since God is the One True Spirit, we end up in a natural, lifelong opposition to Him. This is the battle between spirit and flesh, between good and evil that we are all destined to fight. It is an internal Armageddon going on inside all of us. This battle going on within the hearts of men could well be in perfect accordance with God's plan for us. This battle in and for the hearts of men may be how all flesh is eventually brought into willing subjugation to the greater Spirit, the Spirit of the one, true and eternal God.

Please check out the rest of the article here

 

The separation  and isolation  of those at Hell is not a spatial separation from God, but is  a complete spiritual one suffered for all of eternity to come.

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