Osterloh Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 61 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/01/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (NKJV): "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." Everyone believes the antichrist comes and causes the great tribulation. Then this will cause the falling away (apostacy). This great falling away from the church is the result of many pre-tribulation believers NOT being prepared in any way for the horrendous persecution that will be coming upon them! Many of these many will NOT endure with their faith until the end of their lives. Many of these many will NOT refuse to take the mark of the beast. Scriptures are available upon request regarding … the warnings that both of these causes loss of salvation! All of this happens before Jesus comes to rapture His bride (in verse 1). Edited July 6, 2014 by Osterloh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2014 Those who believe in the pre-trib rapture, if it is proven to be false, will be quickly checking their understanding, but I doubt they will fall prey to Satan. You forget that the Holy Spirit will be right there with them. You surely can be concerned, but to claim many will fall and take the mark is only one possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Most everyone I know who is pre-trib are prepared if they are wrong. The notion that believing in a pre-trib rapture will cause people who believe in it to fall away if it doesn't happen that way is not really true. Many have told me that they are hoping Jesus comes before the tribulation, but are also ready to endure what they have to endure if He doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osterloh Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 61 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/01/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 Thank you both for sharing your views! I guess we could ask what percentage out of a huge number of Christians is “many”? And how many will be totally caught off guard and unprepared? And how many will be cowards and choose to run, trying to save their lives? And how many will choose to take the mark instead of starving to death? Re: being cowards, do you think this applies? … Revelation 21:7-8 (NKJV): “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.22 Reputation: 11,242 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2014 John 10 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand. 29 My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osterloh Posted July 6, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 61 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/01/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 (edited) John 10 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand. 29 My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand. Yes, and please note the tricky words in blue. Now, you are claiming that the passage only applies to true BACs, and thou art correct. Now, I am claiming that the passage does not say "follow Me all of the time without fail" ... because the flesh and free will are involved. And I am also claiming that we are both correct. But, am I claiming correctly? Edited July 6, 2014 by Osterloh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2014 Thank you both for sharing your views!I guess we could ask what percentage out of a huge number of Christians is “many”?And how many will be totally caught off guard and unprepared?And how many will be cowards and choose to run, trying to save their lives?And how many will choose to take the mark instead of starving to death? Re: being cowards, do you think this applies? …Revelation 21:7-8 (NKJV):“He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”To begin with, you use the term "many" in your OP, so why don't you tell us how many that is?Just because someone believes in the pre-trib rapture does not mean they are a coward. Careful how you label people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2014 John 1027 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.29 My Father who gave them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand. Yes, and please note the tricky words in blue. Now, you are claiming that the passage only applies to true BACs, and thou art correct. Now, I am claiming that the passage does not say "follow Me all of the time without fail"... because the flesh and free will are involved. And I am also claiming that we are both correct.But, am I claiming correctly?Our sister did not claim any such thing. It would be wise if you did not put words in other members posts to continue down a line you want to travel. They is a good way to find yourself restricted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire-heart Posted July 7, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 93 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 386 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 104 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/02/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/20/1991 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I believe in a pretribe rapture but am more than prepared to be wrong, I see it as an honor to serve god in the tribulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Okay, Anyone who has read my positions on the topic of end times sequences, knows that I do not take kindly to the pre-trib position. Frankly, I beleive it is an error, and it might even be a dangerous error for some. I beleive it to be an ear tickling deception that we should expect in the last days. That being said, I cannot at all go to the place where I think my pre-trib brothers and sisters in Christ, are endangering their salvation through this belief. It is not belief in a post-trib rapture, that is the basis of salvation, it is faith in the work of Jesus to make us righteous. That is a done, and settled deal to my understanding, and believing in an erroneous peripheral doctrine has not one thing to do with salvation. By a strange coincidence though I was reading the passage last night, about the apostasy, and would like to offer an alternative understanding, This will be a bit premature, and not well thought out or researched, so feel free to pick it apart if it deserves that. It occurred to me, that the word in the Greek which we translate to the word apostasy, can mean rebellion. Look carefully again at the context - might not the rebellion pictured, be a major and obvious rebellion of the man of sin himself, and that this rebellion or apostasy, it what tips the anti-christ's hand, and exposes him, reveals him, for who he is, for those who are watching for the signs that Jesus said to watch for? Just a (not too well thought out) thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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