Scripture threatens loss of salvation

[Qnts2]

I have read in the history of the church, that the early church believed that if a person sins, their interpretation was that since there is no more sacrifice for sin, they have lost their salvation, permanently. Under Roman rule, thru various caesars, some were Christian friendly, and some were violently opposed to Christianity, sentencing Christians to death. After a Christian friendly ruler, many became 'christians', but later, a very anti-christian ruler came to power and persecuted those who claimed to be christians. Many christians fell away, renouncing Jesus, returning to the older Roman religions. When the next christian friendly ruler came to power, some who had fallen away, bemoaned their sin, but the church taught that they had sinned and permanently lost their salvation. It was during this time that church leadership discussed the doctrines and decided that a person could repent, and be saved again.

 

But my point is, at any given time, we know that there are those who have 'snuck in unawares'. People who are not truly born again believers have joined various churches. When a time comes with persecution, and it does not have to be the great tribulation, there will be those who were among us, but are not part of us, who will 'fall away'. I view it as a very sad gleaning of the church.

 

This is affirmed further by the parable of the seeds.

 

Matthew 13: 18“Hear then the parable of the sower. ¹⁹ When anyone hears the ^[i]word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. ²⁰ The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; ²¹ yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the ^[j]word, immediately he ^[k]falls away. ²² And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the ^[l]world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. ²³ And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”

 

²⁴ Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. ²⁵ But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. ²⁶ But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. ²⁷ The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ ²⁸ And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves *said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ ²⁹ But he *said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. ³⁰ Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

 

So, anytime there is persecution, some will fall away. The following verse concerns those who fall away due to false doctrines.

 

 1 Tim 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, ² by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, ³ men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.     

 

I personally believe that God promises to keep those who are His. There are many verses which indicate that we are safely in His hands, and He will not lost us, forsake us, and if one of the sheep wander away, He will come to get us.

 

From my own experience, I was not raised in Christianity, and when I found Jesus was Messiah and Lord, my family and friends did not receive the news well at all. My family declared me dead to them, my friends abandoned me, and my husband divorced me.  To regain family and spouse, all I had to do was renounce Jesus. I also lost my job as my boss was of the same ethniciy and belief as my family. I know this sound all horrible, and it was not fun, but God gave me extraordinary faith, and peace thru that time. If Christians do go thru tribulation, God says He will not give us more then we can bear, and is capable of sustaining us. Since I was a new believer when this happened, I was not grounded in doctrine, and had not formed any end time belief. Yet, God was there. I had no real time to prepare for persecution, yet God was there for me.

 

I would not look forward to the great tribulation, but past experience tells me that whatever we have to experience, if we are genuine believers, God will be there.    

[Guest]

I have read in the history of the church, that the early church believed that if a person sins, their interpretation was that since there is no more sacrifice for sin, they have lost their salvation, permanently.

 

~

 

The Early

 

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

 

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:26-28

 

Church

 

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

[Guest]

Those who think that the Church and Christ followers need to be cleansed by the Trib have a bigger problem than believing or not believing in a Pre-trib rapture. To believe such is to believe that Christ's death on the Cross is insufficient to pay for our sins and that it is an unfinished work. Why would a just GOD want to punish HIS Children whom HE has completely forgiven; whom HE has indwelt with the Holy Spirit guaranteeing their salvation; whom "nothing" can remove from Christ's hand? Christ died for all sin, past, present, and future. Once saved, always saved, and only GOD knows who is saved (besides the person themself).

[OakWood]

Those who think that the Church and Christ followers need to be cleansed by the Trib have a bigger problem than believing or not believing in a Pre-trib rapture. To believe such is to believe that Christ's death on the Cross is insufficient to pay for our sins and that it is an unfinished work. Why would a just GOD want to punish HIS Children whom HE has completely forgiven; whom HE has indwelt with the Holy Spirit guaranteeing their salvation; whom "nothing" can remove from Christ's hand? Christ died for all sin, past, present, and future. Once saved, always saved, and only GOD knows who is saved (besides the person themself).

 

Some may say that the Christians in the Middle East are already going through their own Tribulation. The Tribulation is not so much a punishment from God as a test for mankind. It is Satan who will be doing the punishing. God will only punish after the Tribulation.

But putting all that aside:

 

If the post-tribbers are correct, this does not mean that pre-tribbers will lose their salvation. Pre-tribbers will be protected by the Holy Spirit. Besides, they're not stupid enough to accept a false messiah and then take some sort of mark that he offers them. I think most pre-tribbers are at least familiar with the rudiments of the book of Revelation if nothing else.

[Wildstar]

The whole book pretty much warns about living ungodly and how it results in death.  Not just that scripture.  Not just for people who believe in pre-tribulation rapture.  Personally I believe in mid-trib rapture.  

[The_Patriot21]

Just to throw this out there but the term rapture is not a but biblical term. And last I checked end times belief is not a salvation issue. Nowhere does it say "confess in Jesus and believe in a rapture followed by a 7 year tribulation" unless of course you count Jude chapter 2 verse 2.

[Guest]

Those who think that the Church and Christ followers need to be cleansed by the Trib have a bigger problem than believing or not believing in a Pre-trib rapture.

 

To believe such is to believe that Christ's death on the Cross is insufficient to pay for our sins and that it is an unfinished work.

 

Why would a just GOD want to punish HIS Children whom HE has completely forgiven; whom HE has indwelt with the Holy Spirit guaranteeing their salvation; whom "nothing" can remove from Christ's hand?

 

Christ died for all sin, past, present, and future.

 

Once saved, always saved, and only GOD knows who is saved (besides the person himself).

 

 

Beloved, The Resurrection Of The Body

 

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

 

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18

 

Is A Promise That Was Once Given

 

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25

 

Yet Often Prophesied 

 

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

 

And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

 

Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. Job 19:25-27

 

And Is Clung To By Believers

 

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Revelation 20:4-7

 

You See

 

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 1 John 5:1

 

Beloved

[Osterloh]

Just because someone believes in the pre-trib rapture does not mean they are a coward.

 

Please slow down and read carefully what I have written ... because you have grossly misunderstood it, and mislabelled me as well.

[Osterloh]

The whole book pretty much warns about living ungodly and how it results in death.  Not just that scripture.  

Not just for people who believe in pre-tribulation rapture.  Personally I believe in mid-trib rapture.  

 

By "the whole book" perhaps you mean the whole Bible, and I would agree.

But, surely you don't mean that applies to pre-tribbers (for there is absolutely no sin in being one).

IMO, Scripture makes it clear that the rapture does not occur at either end (fore or aft),

but somewhere in the middle of the great tribulation.

 

A clarification for those of you who have not read/understood what I have written:

-- the antichrist causes the tribulation

-- many pre-tribbers are totally unprepared and shocked at what they are going through

-- so, many of these fall away from the faith

-- Rev 21:8 speaks of "the cowardly" being thrown into the lake of fire ... which agrees with several

other passages that say one must endure in his faith until the end of life to receive eternal life.

-- I am asking: could this "cowardly" refer to people who fall away from the faith during the great tribulation?

Edited July 7, 2014 by Osterloh

[OneLight]

 

Just because someone believes in the pre-trib rapture does not mean they are a coward.

 

Please slow down and read carefully what I have written ... because you have grossly misunderstood it, and mislabelled me as well.

 

 

No, I have not.  I made the statement that just because they are pre-trib believers, that doe snot equate to them being a coward.  The reason why I warned about mislabeling is because you opened this thread, focusing on pre-trib believers.  I believe there will be many who turn from the truth and not because of their stance in the rapture, but because their lack of true faith.

 

Care to show me where I labeled you?