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Is Gog/Magog War=Armageddon War


Spock

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Where do people get Russia out of Ezekiel?

Rosh?????

Rosh has almost exclusively meant "chief" or "head" (not the name of a place)

However, maybe someone had an agenda for this line of thinking. (Russia =bad guys in Ezekiel)

Look at this if interested.http://www.prophezine.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=93:mystery-of-rosh&catid=42&Itemid=118

 

Hi Spock, I believe I mentioned this in some other thread that Rosh did not necessarily mean Russia and that is just an assumption that people have made. However, I wasn't aware that it meant 'chief' or 'head' so thanks for that snippet of info.

You are most welcome. Glad to help. That article I linked was an eye opener for me. Unbelievable what gets passed on as "knowledge."

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FYI, I started this thread believing Ezekiel 38/39 was a different war from Armageddon.

Today, after several intense days of research, I now am undecided.

Yikes!!!!

Marilyn, you are going to have to work harder to keep me from crossing over. I hope you have more arrows in your quiver?

Spock maybe crossing over ( Argosy and Salty here I come)

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Hi Spock,



Here are my thoughts  (again) on the 2 wars, which I believe are at either end of the Tribulation.

The two Wars ............ Ez. 38 & 39. Russian Federation.........................................Rev. 16: 14. World War. (Armageddon -> Valley of Jehoshaphat)

Who initiates................God brings Rosh etc to Israel`s Mountains...........................God brings all the nations to valley of Jehoshaphat. (Joel 3: 2)

Who comes against Israel....Russia, Federation, Iran, Libya & Ethiopia.................All Nations. (Rev. 16: 14)

Who is the Leader.......The Russian Leader (Ez. 38: 7)..........................................The Anti-Christ. (Rev. 19: 19)

What happens.............5/6ths of army wiped out on mountains. (Ez. 39: 2 KJ)........All the armies of the world are destroyed. (Rev. 19: 20 & 21)

What happens after....Israel takes 7 years to burn the weapons............................Christ connects with Israel, judges the nations, then the Millennium.



I think that is quite clear as to the differences.

 

 

Different groups, different places they go to, different way God deals with them, different outcome.

 

The difficulty people have is because they do not understand Prophetic perspective. Thus they read Ez. 38: 19 & 20 which is related to the God`s dealing with the Nations at Armageddon & think therefore it is the battle of Armageddon. But no. God tells us about the Russian war, with all the differences & then goes straight to dealing with the nations at the end.

 

This is quite common in scripture as I pointed out before look at Isa. 61: 2 where God tells us that (Christ) will `proclaim the favourable year of our God, & the day of vengeance of our God.` Well that never happened when Christ came, only the first part of the sentence. (Luke 4: 18 & 19) Are you then going to say well all of that can only mean when Christ comes at Armageddon? No. For we know the first part of the sentence was fulfilled, - then there is a time gap - then the last part.

 

 

We do this in our everyday language - condense what we are doing - & tell others the beginning & the jump straight to the end.

 

 

Hope that helps, Spock. Remember to compare the `differences,` & then try & explain those away. A bit more studying ay? :read:

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Marilyn,

I saw you put that up before and I thought brother Argosy rebutted it pretty well.

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Hi Spock & Argosy,

 

I read again your comments & would again like to point out from God`s word the difference between the 2 wars.

 

 

Russian War -> Mountains of Israel -> 5/6th of armies killed & the rest is driven by God East & Westward.

 

`gathered...to the mountains of Israel.` (Ez. 38: 8)

 

`you shall fall on the mountains of Israel.`  (Ez. 39: 4)

 

`a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel.` (Ez. 39: 17)

 

`I will remove the northern army far from you; I will drive it into a parched & desolate land, & its vanguard into the eastern sea, & its rear guard into the Western sea...` (Joel 2: 20)

 

 

 

World War  - > Valley of Armageddon -> Valley of Jehoshaphat (Jerusalem) -> Lake of fire.

 

`they gathered them together to...Armageddon. (valley)` (Rev. 16: 16)

 

``I will gather all the nations to the valley of Jehoshaphat, (Jerusalem) then I will enter into judgment with them there....

Put in the sickle....come tread, for the wine press is full;.....`  (Joel 3: 2 & 13)

 

`And the wine press was trodden outside the city, (Jerusalem) & the blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses` bridles, for a distance of 200 miles.` (Rev. 14: 20)

 

`And I saw the beast & the kings of the earth & their armies assembled to make war against Him.....& the beast was seized, & with him the false prophet....these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire...& the rest were killed. `Rev. 19: 20 & 21)

 

 

 

Different groups, different places & very different endings - Russian Federation on mountains, 5/6ths killed & rest driven east & west whereas the world`s armies at Armageddon -> Jerusalem were ALL killed, none are driven away.

 

 

Birds eat at both suppers & the great earthquake is at Armageddon. It is mentioned in Ezekiel as I have stated before as showing the final end.

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Marilyn and all,

This passage in Ezekiel 38 still perplexes me. Here it is....

10Thus says the Lord Yahweh: It shall happen in that day, that things shall come into your mind, and you shall devise an evil device: 11and you shall say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to those who are at rest, who dwell securely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates; 12to take the spoil and to take the prey; to turn your hand against the waste places that are [now] inhabited, and against the people who are gathered out of the nations, who have gotten livestock and goods, who dwell in the middle of the earth. 13Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions of it, shall tell you, Have you come to take the spoil? have you assembled your company to take the prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, to take great spoil?

It says Israel is at peace (unwalled villages, having neither bars nor gates, etc).

Question: how could this be (peace) at the end of the great trib, after the abomination of desolation? This peace seems like something that may exist in the first half of Daniels week before the abomination.

Does anyone have any thoughts or explanation I'm missing? Thanks in advance.

PS. Marilyn, show me in the bible where Russia is an end time player. If you show me "Rosh" then I already refuted that with an article I linked (which perhaps you missed on this thread). As far as I can see, there is no Russia.

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Hi Spock,`

 

Yes I can help you. The Lord says in His word that the great army that He sends to Israel to get them to turn to Him is the Northern army. This northern means from the northern quarter. There is only one great army from that quarter & that is Russia. 

 

`But I will remove the Northern army far from you, & drive it into......the East & West.`  (Joel 2: 20)

 

Note also in verse 2:28 - 32

 

`And it will come about AFTER THIS.......`      & `before the great & awesome Day of the Lord comes......`

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Marilyn and all,

This passage in Ezekiel 38 still perplexes me. Here it is....

10Thus says the Lord Yahweh: It shall happen in that day, that things shall come into your mind, and you shall devise an evil device: 11and you shall say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to those who are at rest, who dwell securely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates; 12to take the spoil and to take the prey; to turn your hand against the waste places that are [now] inhabited, and against the people who are gathered out of the nations, who have gotten livestock and goods, who dwell in the middle of the earth. 13Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions of it, shall tell you, Have you come to take the spoil? have you assembled your company to take the prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, to take great spoil?

It says Israel is at peace (unwalled villages, having neither bars nor gates, etc).

Question: how could this be (peace) at the end of the great trib, after the abomination of desolation? This peace seems like something that may exist in the first half of Daniels week before the abomination.

Does anyone have any thoughts or explanation I'm missing? Thanks in advance.

PS. Marilyn, show me in the bible where Russia is an end time player. If you show me "Rosh" then I already refuted that with an article I linked (which perhaps you missed on this thread). As far as I can see, there is no Russia.

 

Something you should have picked up on within that, doesn't Jerusalem and several areas in the nation state of Israel today have walls and gates? Yes.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=walls+in+Israel&client=firefox-a&hs=Jnf&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ZSXGU5vjKcrlsASN3oDwBw&ved=0CDYQsAQ&biw=990&bih=645&dpr=1.03

 

Towards the latter part of the great tribulation, what events are written that will stir up the Antichrist to have that evil thought in destroying God's people once and for all off this earth? Do you remember about God's two witnesses that are given to prophesy in Jerusalem against the beast for 1260 days? Do you recall in Christ's Olivet Discourse His warning that some of us will be delivered up to councils and the synagogue of Satan to give a Witness and Testimony for Him?

 

Have you yet found that future time of being delivered up linked with the event in Joel 2 that Peter quoted in Acts 2 on Pentecost? The event Peter quoted from Joel 2 most think was completely fulfiled on Pentecost per Acts 2, but a thorough look at the actual prophecy in Joel 2 reveals an event for the very end of this world is included.

 

That... is what the Antichrist will be angry about that will stir him up to destroy God's Israel completely off the earth. And that's when Christ Jesus will step in to destroy those armies out of the northern quarters on the "day of the Lord". The Testimony Christ's elect will give to the whole world when they are delivered up to councils and such will strike a major defeating blow upon the beast and his beast kingdom (see also about the ships of Chittim in Dan.11, and look at what Chittim means per the Strong's.).

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Marilyn and all,

This passage in Ezekiel 38 still perplexes me. Here it is....

10Thus says the Lord Yahweh: It shall happen in that day, that things shall come into your mind, and you shall devise an evil device: 11and you shall say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to those who are at rest, who dwell securely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates; 12to take the spoil and to take the prey; to turn your hand against the waste places that are [now] inhabited, and against the people who are gathered out of the nations, who have gotten livestock and goods, who dwell in the middle of the earth. 13Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions of it, shall tell you, Have you come to take the spoil? have you assembled your company to take the prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, to take great spoil?

It says Israel is at peace (unwalled villages, having neither bars nor gates, etc).

Question: how could this be (peace) at the end of the great trib, after the abomination of desolation? This peace seems like something that may exist in the first half of Daniels week before the abomination.

Does anyone have any thoughts or explanation I'm missing? Thanks in advance.

PS. Marilyn, show me in the bible where Russia is an end time player. If you show me "Rosh" then I already refuted that with an article I linked (which perhaps you missed on this thread). As far as I can see, there is no Russia.

 

This would be difficult to understand if you believe in a 7 year tribulation, because then you are obliged to fill each 3.5 year period with events and the 7 year period becomes confusing.

 

If we focus just on the warning that Jesus gives concerning the great tribulation everything becomes easier to understand. Jesus does not mention a peace treaty. Jesus says in Luke 21 that after the Jewish exile there will be great signs in the sky and the abomination (as per Daniel). Jesus describes this as the greatest tribulation period ever, and warns of false Jewish leaders associated with these signs during that period. And shortly thereafter the second coming. Simple just 3.5 years.

 

With this as background, it seems during the preceding period of wars and rumours of wars that the antichrist establishes his power, not in any great war. More like the Psalm 83 war and small-scale skirmishes. Daniel 11 does not mention any specific war during which he comes to power, but I assume there will be some minor battles as the little horn subdues the 3 horns.

 

When the Turkish Union assists the smaller Israeli expansion within its borders, this will bring peace to the Middle East. Looking at current trends, which isn't always the best way to read prophecy, it appears the Jews and the Kurds will create a central state within the Turkish Union. Thus the world will in this way be at peace. This peace will be similar to the Antiochus peace of Daniel 11, where Antiochus deceives the more modern Hellenistic Jews of that time into accepting a sort of Zeus/Judaism compromise in the temple, with Antiochus own image in the temple.  Jews will compromise their very autonomy and religion through following this Islamic promoted false Messiah.  Thus Israel will be at peace and become unsuspecting and will be in sin under the antichrist.

 

But this is the great Islamic deception, they cannot beat the west and so are joining in (if you cant beat them join them). They are taking the forefront at promoting this peace and allowing Jews to return in even greater numbers under the new peace of their false Messiah.  Islam uses the guise of Sunni Islam, in the meantime Iran and Turkey and Russia will be secretly building up a massive force , in fulfilment of Shi-ite prophecies to wipe Jews off the face of the earth.    So that is the tribulation, a short period of evil peace under the rule of the antichrist, while the world plots the antichrist's demise.  This explains why the antichrist is so shocked by reports from the north and east just before he dies, and also explains why 

israel is unsuspecting just before the Gog attack.

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Argosy,

I believe in one week left in Daniels prophecy of 70 weeks.

One week = 7 years

The word says in Daniel 9 that the final week commences when he affirms a pact with the many. You can't get around this.

It seems very logical to me that if Israel were at peace it would be only in this first 3.5 years.

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