Is Gog/Magog War=Armageddon War

[ARGOSY]

Argosy,

I believe in one week left in Daniels prophecy of 70 weeks.

One week = 7 years

 

I understand, but even so, if you see the great tribulation period as the 42 months of rule of the antichrist in Jerusalem, in an Islamic/Jewish peace then its easy to understand the Ezekiel 39 war on a peaceful and unsuspecting Israel.  

 

I suppose you see the ending of sacrifices as an aggressive anti-Jewish move by the antichrist and so you are battling to fit your paradigm into the view of  a  popular Jewish antichrist and a peaceful Israel during the tribulation period. 

[Spock]

Argosy,

Just to be clear, you do agree one week (7 years) are left for Israel, yes? Daniel 9 is clear on that.

I agree, the great trib is half of that- 42 months or 3.5 years, but you still have to deal with the other 3.5 years. What are you going to do with that? Please give me your analysis of the ENTIRE WEEK. We both know the GT is the last 3.5 years. What about the first half?

Now, getting back to who the antichrist is, I can see where you and Salty can believe the ac is Jewish based on daniel 9:27, but there is more scripture to consider. Here is 9:27

27He shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and on the wing of abominations [shall come] one who makes desolate; and even to the full end, and that determined, shall [wrath] be poured out on the desolate.

If you assume the He is the ac, then it is possible a Jewish ac can make a firm covenant with many (many nations) for one week (7 years).

However, I think you run into problems when you go to Daniel 7 and 8 and you start analyzing the little horn that rises up. I do not see from these passages that the little horn is Jewish.

Help me see why you believe the ac is Jewish in these passages. Thanks.

[Spock]

Inchrist,

I hear you, but it still doesn't make sense.

If this was happening at the end of the great trib, how could Gog/AC even think Israel is living in peace and safety, let alone think it.

Again, context here- this is after the abomination of desolation and after the 666 mark of the beast, whatever that is, has been instituted. There will be lots of martyrs and killings at this time.

Why would Gog think through all this, little Israel, surrounded by many enemies, is dwelling safely?

It makes zero sense to me.

[ARGOSY]

Argosy,

Just to be clear, you do agree one week (7 years) are left for Israel, yes? Daniel 9 is clear on that.

I agree, the great trib is half of that- 42 months or 3.5 years, but you still have to deal with the other 3.5 years. What are you going to do with that? Please give me your analysis of the ENTIRE WEEK. We both know the GT is the last 3.5 years. What about the first half?

Now, getting back to who the antichrist is, I can see where you and Salty can believe the ac is Jewish based on daniel 9:27, but there is more scripture to consider. Here is 9:27

27He shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and on the wing of abominations [shall come] one who makes desolate; and even to the full end, and that determined, shall [wrath] be poured out on the desolate.

If you assume the He is the ac, then it is possible a Jewish ac can make a firm covenant with many (many nations) for one week (7 years).

However, I think you run into problems when you go to Daniel 7 and 8 and you start analyzing the little horn that rises up. I do not see from these passages that the little horn is Jewish.

Help me see why you believe the ac is Jewish in these passages. Thanks.

 

 

I believe just 3.5 years of Daniel 9:27 are left to be fulfilled.  Daniel 9 mentions a few events regarding the final 490 special Jewish years and I fail to see why Jesus' fulfilment of the Messianic covenant, Jesus ministry and Jesus crucifixion would fail to have a precise location in the 490 years in favor of some other less significant events than His 3.5 years of ministry and crucifixion. These changed eternity and should logically have a precise location within the 490 year period. Thus I believe Jesus fulfilled the first 3.5 years of the last 7. The antichrist will fulfil the other 3.5 years.

 

Most people fail to see that there are two characters in Daniel 9:27. This is because the KJV and NIV are the favored translations. Other than these two , most translations separate the identity of the two characters as per the bible verse you quoted.    He confirms..... One sets up the abomination.     He confirms.....the desolator sets up the abomination. Two separate characters.

 

It is the revealing of the antichrist 3.5 years before the end that deceives the world into peace. Its not a peace treaty as such, but it is a pre-arranged deception between Islam and Israel that unites the world, as I said its ANOTHER character that confirms the covenant according to most bibles (please check this fact).  So we have one 3.5 year period of antichrist world peace not associated with the character of the 7 year treaty confirmation.  

 

This explains the Ezekiel peace.  

[Spock]

Argosy,

3.5 years of world peace. Hmmmm

Where do the seals, trumpets, and bowls fit in here? Are they in this 3.5 years? If so, does that sound like peace to you?

[ARGOSY]

Argosy,

3.5 years of world peace. Hmmmm

Where do the seals, trumpets, and bowls fit in here? Are they in this 3.5 years? If so, does that sound like peace to you?

 

Political peace, but this is the great tribulation. So there will be natural disasters all over the world and intense persecution for us believers. But the Middle East will be at peace. As Jesus said, life will still carry on as normal right until that last day, two people will be getting married, two in the field. During the tribulation period Israel will be kept safe (1260 days of safety - Rev 12).. This Israel safety extends to the two witnesses who preach with impunity in the beast's capital city. They get away with this blatant criticism of the world system for those 3.5 years because their preaching overlaps the 3.5 years of Israel's protection. Which is the same 42 months of the beast's authority over earth. All these 3.5 year periods overlap. 

 

I believe the seals are long periods of time leading up to the second coming. We are currently under the period of the black horse.

The trumpets span the tribulation.

The bowls are the wrath that we mainly avoid because of the rapture (they occur only at the end of the tribulation. 

 

So its basically the trumpets that will occur during this 3.5 year period. Yes Jesus did promise that this would be the worst period of troubles, but I do believe this co-incides with the sinful peaceful unsuspecting period of Israel.

 

Edit: I'm editing this post to add an additional point. In Daniel 11, even the antichrist is unsuspecting. Its only after the alarming reports from the north and east that he comes to his end at the time of the resurrection. This fits in with an unsuspecting Israel.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Argosy,

 

Now you said in post #36 `Thus I believe Jesus fulfilled the first 3.5 years of the last 7 years.`

 

This actually is not correct as the 483 years (69 x 7) leads right up to Palm Sunday (March 30th 33 AD) in line with Zech 9: 9 & Luke 19: 29 - 44.

Then Messiah was `cut off` April 3 AD 33.  The 490 years are Sabbatical years of 360 days.

 

Thus Prophetic years - 483 X 360 days

And Calendar years - 476 X 365.242 + 25 days.

 

 

From March 5, 444 B.C ........................................................................................................March 30, 33 AD.  + (Cross).......................Israel`s final 7 years.

.......................................................(483 years / 173,880 days)..................................................

[Spock]

Marilyn,

I can't wait to see brother Argosy's rebuttal to your last post. I'm still trying to recover from his explanation of the first 3.5 years.

I 100% agree with you- week 69 ended when Messiah was CUT OFF. This could only mean one thing.

[Marilyn C]

I will just add this comment in relation to Daniel`s 70 x 7 years, with the final 7 years to come.

 

Daniel 9: 25 speaks of  `until Messiah the Prince there will be 7 weeks & 62 weeks.` (69 x 7 = 483 years)

 

Now we see in Zech. 9:9 `Rejoice greatly O daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem! behold your king is coming to you; He is just & endowed with salvation, humble & mounted on a donkey, even a colt, the foal of a donkey.`

 

And we see the fulfilment written in Luke 19: 29 - 44. The Lord is riding into Jerusalem on a colt. The multitudes receive Him as their King (or Prince). This shows us exactly when the 69 weeks of Daniel finishes. And we know that there are the final details of the last 7 years to come.

 

How exact is God`s word.

[ARGOSY]

Marilyn,

I can't wait to see brother Argosy's rebuttal to your last post. I'm still trying to recover from his explanation of the first 3.5 years.

I 100% agree with you- week 69 ended when Messiah was CUT OFF. This could only mean one thing.

 

The wording says   26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off

 

So this "cut off" certainly does not occur at 69 sevens, that would be biblically incorrect. Surely it is an important enough event (it changed eternity) to warrant a further specific place in the 69 sevens rather than just being "sometime following the 69th seven"?  I believe he was cut off 3.5 years after the 69th seven. 

 

When did the anointed one come? When Jesus was anointed in the Jordan and was recognised by John the baptist as the anointed one. It makes no sense to associate the "coming of the anointed one"  with the triumphal entry into Jerusalem on a donkey, when Jesus had already been a public anointed , miracle working anointed one for years.

 

So Jesus was the last sacrificial lamb at the crucifixion , 3.5 years after "the coming of the anointed one" in the River Jordan, when Jesus was anointed and appeared to Israel as the anointed one. 

 

This view exposes the following flaws in the standard view:

1) They ignore that being cut off was sometime after the 69th seven, not at the 69th seven

2) They get the timing of the coming of the anointed one wrong, it occurred 3.5 years earlier at the river Jordan

3) The greatest Jewish covenant, the promise by God to send a Messiah to set them free was confirmed by Jesus continuously for 3.5 years of healing and forgiving Jews. This confirming the covenant by Jesus is ignored in favor of seeing a future antichrist and some antichrist peace treaty that is not even mentioned in the NT

4) They ignore that most translations have two characters in v27, not one

5) Although the crucifixion was the most important moment in history and was the final sacrificial lamb, and occurred exactly 3.5 years after the coming of the anointed one, this entire fact is ignored as insignificant to the 490 years of Jewish relevance compared to a view unconfirmed in the NT that there will be an ending of sacrifices in a newly built temple.

 

I would say Jesus, the Messianic covenant, and His ministry and crucifixion should take more prominence in the 490 Jewish years than the standard 7 year tribulation view allows for.