Jump to content
IGNORED

Is Gog/Magog War=Armageddon War


Spock

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  1,695
  • Content Per Day:  0.45
  • Reputation:   583
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  01/03/2014
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  04/11/1968

I will just add this comment in relation to Daniel`s 70 x 7 years, with the final 7 years to come.

 

Daniel 9: 25 speaks of  `until Messiah the Prince there will be 7 weeks & 62 weeks.` (69 x 7 = 483 years)

 

Now we see in Zech. 9:9 `Rejoice greatly O daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem! behold your king is coming to you; He is just & endowed with salvation, humble & mounted on a donkey, even a colt, the foal of a donkey.`

 

And we see the fulfilment written in Luke 19: 29 - 44. The Lord is riding into Jerusalem on a colt. The multitudes receive Him as their King (or Prince). This shows us exactly when the 69 weeks of Daniel finishes. And we know that there are the final details of the last 7 years to come.

 

How exact is God`s word.

 

I would say that when Jesus was anointed in the River Jordan 3.5 years earlier , and was recognised publicly by john the Baptist as the "anointed one" is a more correct timing of the "coming of the anointed one". He was a very public and often recognised Messianic figure from that moment on, so the "triumphant entry" has less significance for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  30
  • Topic Count:  265
  • Topics Per Day:  0.07
  • Content Count:  13,128
  • Content Per Day:  3.50
  • Reputation:   8,461
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  12/21/2013
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  10/06/1947

Hi Argosy,

 

I do hear your concern regarding our Lord & the importance of His death, sacrifice etc. However the 70 x 7 was Israel`s chastisement & obviously they did not as a nation recognise Him, thus the `Messiah will be cut off,` after the 69 x 7 - in the space before the last 7 years.

 

A note on the covenant. Jesus Himself is the covenant as you have said but does not have prominence in the 490 years as that is Israel`s chastisement. Christ is overseeing this & will fulfil the atoning of Israel`s national rebellion, - the land & its people. (Dan. 9: 24    Deut. 32: 43   Joel 3: 2)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  1,695
  • Content Per Day:  0.45
  • Reputation:   583
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  01/03/2014
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  04/11/1968

Hi Argosy,

 

Now you said in post #36 `Thus I believe Jesus fulfilled the first 3.5 years of the last 7 years.`

 

This actually is not correct as the 483 years (69 x 7) leads right up to Palm Sunday (March 30th 33 AD) in line with Zech 9: 9 & Luke 19: 29 - 44.

Then Messiah was `cut off` April 3 AD 33.  The 490 years are Sabbatical years of 360 days.

 

Thus Prophetic years - 483 X 360 days

And Calendar years - 476 X 365.242 + 25 days.

 

 

From March 5, 444 B.C ........................................................................................................March 30, 33 AD.  + (Cross).......................Israel`s final 7 years.

.......................................................(483 years / 173,880 days)..................................................

 

Thanks for your analysis.  This is based on 360 day years, which is an incorrect view of the Jewish calendar. Their calendar always adjusted according to the Levites assessment of the coming of actual spring, thus they had a few 360 day years, and occasionally inserted an extra month creating the occasional 390 day year. In this way the number of our years always matches the number of Jewish years, there is no difference.

 

I therefore prefer the decree of Artaxerxes which was delivered to its destination (Administrators) in late 458 BC.  Exactly 483 years later in late 26AD Jesus started his ministry and was baptised in the River Jordan when the anointing fell upon him. At that moment He was recognised publicly by John the Baptist as the Anointed One.

 

 After 3.5 years of confirming God's promised Messiah to the Jews through forgiving and healing and setting free the Jewish nation;  Jesus was cut off. This occurred in the spring of 30AD ,when Jesus was the final sacrificial lamb. this was exactly 486.5 years after the decree of Artaxerxes was issued to the administrators. 

 

Or maybe we should rather insert a gap there , in favor of some other character because Jesus confirming God's covenant at the moment of the coming of the anointed one isn't a good enough fit? And maybe Jesus' final sacrifice 3.5 years later , after the coming of the anointed one isnt a good fit, and we should insert a gap and look for someone else?? 

 

I don't see it that way, Jesus was the final sacrifical lamb exactly 486.5 years after the decree was issued, just as expected. Why look for anyone else?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  1,695
  • Content Per Day:  0.45
  • Reputation:   583
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  01/03/2014
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  04/11/1968

Hi Argosy,

 

I do hear your concern regarding our Lord & the importance of His death, sacrifice etc. However the 70 x 7 was Israel`s chastisement & obviously they did not as a nation recognise Him, thus the `Messiah will be cut off,` after the 69 x 7 - in the space before the last 7 years.

 

A note on the covenant. Jesus Himself is the covenant as you have said but does not have prominence in the 490 years as that is Israel`s chastisement. Christ is overseeing this & will fulfil the atoning of Israel`s national rebellion, - the land & its people. (Dan. 9: 24    Deut. 32: 43   Joel 3: 2)

 

I don't see why the wording "after" would imply it is in the gap. It could still be within the 70 sevens, and yet after the 69th seven. 

 

I don't see the 490 year period as Israel's chastisement, rather Israel's blessing. They were restored from Babylonian exile, they rebuilt their city, they received their anointed one, the promise of God to send a Messiah was finally confirmed. Even the cutting off/final sacrifice was a blessing.

 

Its the period outside the 490 years that is Israel's chastisement. 70AD   (after Jesus is cut off, then the temple and the city will be corrupted/destroyed.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  8
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  1,665
  • Content Per Day:  0.46
  • Reputation:   512
  • Days Won:  3
  • Joined:  05/11/2014
  • Status:  Offline

Hi Argosy,

 

I do hear your concern regarding our Lord & the importance of His death, sacrifice etc. However the 70 x 7 was Israel`s chastisement & obviously they did not as a nation recognise Him, thus the `Messiah will be cut off,` after the 69 x 7 - in the space before the last 7 years.

 

A note on the covenant. Jesus Himself is the covenant as you have said but does not have prominence in the 490 years as that is Israel`s chastisement. Christ is overseeing this & will fulfil the atoning of Israel`s national rebellion, - the land & its people. (Dan. 9: 24    Deut. 32: 43   Joel 3: 2)

 

So none of the Israelites believed on Christ Jesus? is it still that way today? News to me!

 

A 'fair' look at who all Daniel's people involves certainly does not only involve orthodox unbelieving Jews.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  30
  • Topic Count:  265
  • Topics Per Day:  0.07
  • Content Count:  13,128
  • Content Per Day:  3.50
  • Reputation:   8,461
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  12/21/2013
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  10/06/1947

Hi Argosy,

 

Daniel`s 70 x 7 is Israel`s chastisement.

 

Firstly God told Israel that the 70 years in Babylon was because they did not keep the Sabbath rest for the land. Every 7 years the land had to rest. (Lev. 25: 3)

 

`carried away to Babylon...to fulfil the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its Sabbaths. All the days of its desolation it kept Sabbath until seventy years were completed.`  (2 Chron. 36: 21)

 

They thought that that was all they had to do but God again told them through Daniel that Israel had to do 70 x 7, not just for the land`s rest which they had done but for the people who were rebellious throughout that time & did not serve the Lord. (Dan. 9: 24)

 

 

Daniel prays `Lord our God......we have rebelled against Him; nor have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His teachings which He has set before us through His servants the prophets. Indeed ALL ISRAEL has transgressed Thy law & turned aside  not obeying Thy voice; so the curse has been poured out on us, along with the oath which is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, for we have sinned against Him.`  (Dan. 9: 9 - 11 ff)

 

 

490 years (70 x 7) is Israel`s chastisement by God for every day that they rebelled against the Lord their God. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  1,695
  • Content Per Day:  0.45
  • Reputation:   583
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  01/03/2014
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  04/11/1968

Hi Argosy,

 

Daniel`s 70 x 7 is Israel`s chastisement.

 

Firstly God told Israel that the 70 years in Babylon was because they did not keep the Sabbath rest for the land. Every 7 years the land had to rest. (Lev. 25: 3)

 

`carried away to Babylon...to fulfil the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its Sabbaths. All the days of its desolation it kept Sabbath until seventy years were completed.`  (2 Chron. 36: 21)

 

They thought that that was all they had to do but God again told them through Daniel that Israel had to do 70 x 7, not just for the land`s rest which they had done but for the people who were rebellious throughout that time & did not serve the Lord. (Dan. 9: 24)

 

 

Daniel prays `Lord our God......we have rebelled against Him; nor have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His teachings which He has set before us through His servants the prophets. Indeed ALL ISRAEL has transgressed Thy law & turned aside  not obeying Thy voice; so the curse has been poured out on us, along with the oath which is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, for we have sinned against Him.`  (Dan. 9: 9 - 11 ff)

 

 

490 years (70 x 7) is Israel`s chastisement by God for every day that they rebelled against the Lord their God. 

 

Marilyn I believe you must read Daniel 9 more carefully. I am very sure that most readers would see the Babylonian exile as the period of chastisement, and the angel's description of 70 sevens as the blessing and solution to Daniel's distress about Jerusalem and Israel.  You are welcome to your view, but your view in this case may cause doubt as to your credibility when interpreting scripture. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  30
  • Topic Count:  265
  • Topics Per Day:  0.07
  • Content Count:  13,128
  • Content Per Day:  3.50
  • Reputation:   8,461
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  12/21/2013
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  10/06/1947

Hi Argosy,

 

I am always willing, I pray, to learn from those who know aspects of scripture that I am not familiar with. However to do with Israel`s chastisement I see in Daniel 9 v. 24 -

 

`Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people & your holy city to finish the transgression......` (national rebellion)

 

Israel had been promised that they would be the rulers of the nations. This has not happened (as yet) & Israel has not received `the blessing & solution to Daniel`s distress,`  as you said. Rather the people of  Israel have had a most difficult  & distressing history as we can all see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  8
  • Topic Count:  29
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,239
  • Content Per Day:  0.87
  • Reputation:   1,686
  • Days Won:  6
  • Joined:  12/26/2013
  • Status:  Offline

Marilyn,

For what this is worth, I'm with you on this one. I think everything you said is spot on.

When messiah was cut off (Calvary), that ended week 69.

Enter the church age and the time of the Gentiles. Stop clock.

Gap

Last week will resume pursuant to Daniel 9:27. Brother Argosy knows what the word says. I guess he chooses to interpret it differently. Maybe he is right and we are wrong. (I'm feeling good about this one though.)

It's okay to agree to disagree, and move on ......

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  30
  • Topic Count:  265
  • Topics Per Day:  0.07
  • Content Count:  13,128
  • Content Per Day:  3.50
  • Reputation:   8,461
  • Days Won:  12
  • Joined:  12/21/2013
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  10/06/1947

Hi Spock,

 

That`s great we agree, & yes the `gap,` which is so amazing for us in the Body of Christ. Now I throw this out but will be for another thread. Perhaps you may like to think (or already know) why God made this other group of `called out ones,` & didn`t just have us as believers in each of the nations. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...