Salty Posted July 15, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2014 How one believes for the end of this world about the Biblical timing of our Lord Jesus' second coming, can... and will... affect one's stance with Him as a believer when He appears. We know that by His parable of the ten virgins; He closes the door on the five foolish virgins who didn't have the spare vessel of the Oil to go with what Oil they had in their lamps. The reason why it matters is because of what the coming Antichrist is to do first in deceiving as many as will into believing he is The Christ Messiah, Immanuel God with us. A pre-trib rapture or mid-trib rapture is designed to deceive to that Antichrist's coming and working as Christ. The early Church fathers of the 1st and 2nd centuries held to our Lord Jesus' coming after... the working of the final Antichrist in Jerusalem, so if one wants to compare their writings with what's taught in the Churches today on this matter, those writings are still available, even on the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted July 17, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,987 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,517 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2014 I'm amazed at all the attention that the teaching of the rapture receives. I think we can all agree that we are not destined for wrath, however, in the world we will have tribulation. Essentially it boils down to semantics and definitions. What I see as more important than pinpointing when the rapture will happen is understanding what those days are like from a political, economic, social, religious standpoint. Its a matter being ready as Salty mentioned. Be prepared for the worst case scenario and you're prepared for every lesser scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted July 17, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2014 I'm amazed at all the attention that the teaching of the rapture receives. I think we can all agree that we are not destined for wrath, however, in the world we will have tribulation. Essentially it boils down to semantics and definitions. What I see as more important than pinpointing when the rapture will happen is understanding what those days are like from a political, economic, social, religious standpoint. Its a matter being ready as Salty mentioned. Be prepared for the worst case scenario and you're prepared for every lesser scenario. If our Lord Jesus has not revealed Himself to you 'in person', so that you 'know' what He looks like, i.e., His outward appearance and likeness and such, then HOW will you know the difference when the coming Antichrist arrives and tells you he is Christ, and does miracles and wonders like only our Lord Jesus could do? On top of that, when the majority of the whole world accepts the Antichrist truly as God, because that's how it's to happen, how many family and friends do you think will know the difference too? Won't they be trying to do everything they can to persuade you into believing the deception too? And that's just it, if you are here in that time, and Christ's Church will be, you will be tempted to believe that our Lord Jesus has returned, and that He is in Jerusalem, and be told to go gather to Him. Problem is, that first messiah showing up in Jerusalem will NOT... be our Lord Jesus Christ, but the "another Jesus" of 2 Cor.11 instead. What was that Apostle Paul said about that "another Jesus"? that no marvel for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light?? and his ministers as the ministers of righteousness? So there's even another point of deception, those ministers who work for Satan; they'll be trying to persuade you into believing our Lord Jesus has truly come also. But our Lord Jesus commanded us to not believe it (Matt.24:23-26). Folks are wrong with thinking they will easily be able to tell the coming Antichrist is just another worker for Satan, or some flesh man, etc. No, the coming Antichrist is going to play God, so he will have the looks, and the power to pull it off with the majority, that's how powerful a working it's going to be on this earth. This is why our Lord Jesus warned that if possible, he would deceive even His very elect saints. So what level of deceptive power and working would it take for Christ's sealed servants to almost... be tempted to worship the coming Antichrist with thinking he truly is our Lord Jesus? Consider that level and you're in the ballpark of what the tribulation is actually going to be about, and then understand the majority of leaders in the Churches don't even have a clue as to all this, yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persuaded Posted July 17, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2014 I know that the pretribe rapture belief is the most hated rapture belief but it has its benefits. I like this benefit, that I live with the expectancy of His imminent return: Mat 24:45-51~ Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite [his] fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Without looking them up, I can think of a half-dozen places where the return of the Lord is described as at hand, soon, quickly, nigh, etc. Simply, are you looking for the coming of the Lord, or are you focussed on the signs leading to the trib? If you're post-trib then you have seven or 3.5 years to make yourself ready, once you become aware the trib has started. Do you think some folks today are using that as a reason to delay coming to the Lord? Jane Eyre said when asked what she must do to avoid hell: "I must remain healthy." As long as they're healthy, people will think that there will be an event to watch for, and then they'll get serious about this God stuff. The benefit of a pre-trib perspective is that I don't give myself an excuse to delay preparing my heart for His return. I have an attitude of urgency. Do you see such an urgent attitude in the post-trib or amillinneal mainstream denominational church today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted July 19, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 19, 2014 I don't think it proper to assume those who don't accept the pre-trib rapture theory as being any less expectant of Christ's coming to gather us than anyone else. In other words, no one is putting off the time of Christ's second coming by 'watching' the events leading up to the end LIKE HE COMMANDED US TO DO (end of Matt.24 for one example; Rev.16:15 for another). If there is any group of believers that is LESS likely to be ready for the day of His coming, it is those who are NOT watching the events He gave us leading up to His return. Being in a spiritual 'expectant' mind state by itself is not enough to be ready. One MUST follow and heed His Word on the events He gave in warning us about not being deceived. So deception... by not KNOWING what the coming events are is the worst ill-prepared state today. And Church leadership that says we don't need... to watch, well they go directly against the commandment of our Lord Jesus, so why even listen to them, for those will lead one to become a foolish virgin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jesse Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Hi salty. The pretribbers will be surprised when they have to go through the tribulation. They expected to be taken up before the tribulation. They may be in fear, thinking they are left behind. jesse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 265 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,130 Content Per Day: 3.50 Reputation: 8,461 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Hi Salty, Now what specific events are you referring to? You said - `So deception... by not KNOWING what the coming events are is the worst ill-prepared state today. Do you just mean events in the `70th week,` or are you referring to specific events now as well? Edited August 12, 2014 by Marilyn C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted August 13, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hi salty. The pretribbers will be surprised when they have to go through the tribulation. They expected to be taken up before the tribulation. They may be in fear, thinking they are left behind. jesse. Somehow, I believe the coming Antichrist/pseudo-Christ might cause some event to fool them on that point. Recall the end of Luke 17 about the one 'taken' in the field, etc. Could false messiah pull off some kind of fake rapture because that's what they are expecting? Just how far can we apply our Lord Jesus' meaning of the one "taken" in the field, and the other left? This is something I've only lightly considered, because I don't see any other Scripture witnesses that gives more of a clue on this besides that one at the end of Luke 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted August 13, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hi Salty, Now what specific events are you referring to? You said - `So deception... by not KNOWING what the coming events are is the worst ill-prepared state today. Do you just mean events in the `70th week,` or are you referring to specific events now as well? I'm referring specifically to the things our Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us to not be deceived about for the very end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted August 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 265 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,130 Content Per Day: 3.50 Reputation: 8,461 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hi Salty, And what specifically are those events & are they pre-trib. or in the trib? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts