question that has been preventing me from investigating Christianity f

[Guest]

My two cents:

 

Since Adam was created perfect, and was in a perfect environment, and lacked nothing, he is qualifiyed to represent the best mankind could be.

 

The perfect man, in the perfect environment, lacking nothing he needed, still sinned. Therefore, any one of us would (and has) done the same thing. 

 

Further, since we are God's creation, we are His do do with as He pleases, and we are not in a position to dictate to Him, waht He can do or cannot do, should do, or should not do, and as morally imperfect, we basically have no standing. 

 

All blame is on us, and we are righteously judged for our sins.

 

Thankfully though, God has provided a solution, where we do not need to be perfect to avoid the consequences of our sins and His righteous judgement.

[Hippie333]

My two cents:

 

Since Adam was created perfect, and was in a perfect environment, and lacked nothing, he is qualifiyed to represent the best mankind could be.

 

The perfect man, in the perfect environment, lacking nothing he needed, still sinned. Therefore, any one of us would (and has) done the same thing. 

 

Further, since we are God's creation, we are His do do with as He pleases, and we are not in a position to dictate to Him, waht He can do or cannot do, should do, or should not do, and as morally imperfect, we basically have no standing. 

 

All blame is on us, and we are righteously judged for our sins.

 

Thankfully though, God has provided a solution, where we do not need to be perfect to avoid the consequences of our sins and His righteous judgement.

:clap: :clap:

[Guest]

You have to understand exactly what “free will” is and how Adam could make the choice that he made. Angels are created beings. They were not created in the image of GOD as GOD is Spirit. There were a finite number created by GOD to serve HIM in some manner. There are different levels for angels, some made much more powerful than others. I can't remember that we are told anywhere that they have souls as we do (I may be wrong) nor can they die. They were created with free will just as we were, hence their ability to rebel against their GOD and why Lucifer was able to convince 1/3 of them to follow him.

Adam was created in GOD's image, perfect in every way; in a perfect world. Out of Adam Eve was created, also perfect. They were created to live with GOD in the Utopia that GOD created in 7 days and called "Earth." Adam and Eve had free will, just as the Angels. When Adam and Eve decided to do what GOD had told them must not do, it wasn't in defiance or rebellion or disobedience because they didn't know what that was. Before the fall (Adam’s sin), Adam had the ability to sin and the ability not to sin. But, Adam lacked the exalted state of the inability to sin that GOD enjoys. GOD’s inability to sin is based not on an inner powerlessness to do what HE wants, but rather on the fact that GOD has no inner desire to sin. Since the desire for sin is utterly absent from GOD, there is no reason for GOD to choose sin.

Before the fall Adam enjoyed both a free will and a moral liberty; Adam did not have the moral perfection of GOD, but neither did he have the inability to refrain from sin. During his time of “probation” in the Garden, he had the ability to sin and the ability not to sin. He chose to exercise the ability to sin and thus brought sin into the world. How was it possible for such a creature as Adam, with no prior disposition toward evil actually to take the step into evil?

It could be that Adam was duped by the craftiness of Satan and simply did not know what he was doing. That the devil, in his guile, was able to seduce Adam and Eve by confusing their thought patterns because their weakness was not moral in nature but intellectual inasmuch as they failed to perceive the underhandedness of the serpent. The only problem with this idea is that Scripture does not describe Adam and Eve as having been completely fooled by their adversary. Rather, they had full knowledge of what GOD allowed and did not allow them to do. They couldn’t plead ignorance.

Or, it could be that Adam and Eve were coerced by Satan to disobey GOD. “The Devil mad me do it.” If, however, Satan fully and forcibly coerced Adam and Eve to disobey GOD, then the excuse would stick. We could then assume that they did not act with a reasonable measure of freedom which would have delivered them from moral responsibility. But again, there is no Scriptural support for this theory.

So, by what means did Adam and Eve make an evil choice? There are three alternatives. First, if Adam had been created with no inclination towards righteousness or evil, his free will would have no motivation to choose. Without motivation, there could be no choice, and even if it were possible, it would have no moral importance. Second, if Adam was created with a disposition towards evil it would cast a horrible shadow over the character of GOD, for this would mean that GOD created man so that he would choose evil and GOD could therefore punish him for exercising the very disposition that HE had planted within his soul. That would make GOD the author and mainly responsible for human wickedness. In fact, Adam tried this, by saying in Genesis 3:12 “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree and I ate.” Since that time, mankind has always tried to blame our plight on GOD.

Thirdly, if GOD had created Adam with only a disposition towards righteousness, we would then have an effect without sufficient cause. After all, how is it possible for a creature created to only choose righteousness to have chosen to act wickedly?

Perhaps it was something good that caused Adam to fall, something that in and of itself was good, but which could have been misused and abused by the seductive influences of Satan. But this explanation does not account for how this good desire could have become distorted, overruling the prior obligation to obey GOD. If true, Adam must have had the desire to disobey GOD before the act of disobedience occurred. Therefore, the fall would have already taken place before the act because the very desire to act against GOD is itself sinful.

So, now that sin has been brought into the world, we have lost our original powers of righteousness; we no longer have the ability not to sin. In our fallen state, our plight is found in our inability to keep from sinning, something profoundly vital to moral freedom was lost. While we still have the freedom of free will, we have lost the moral liberty that Adam had enjoyed. In other words, we still have the ability to choose what we want, but we lack the desire for true righteousness.

To be clear, to blame the fall on man’s finite limitations is really putting blame on the GOD who made man finite. But Biblically, the issue has been and always will be, a moral one. Adam was commanded by GOD not to sin, but Adam chose to sin, though not because GOD or anyone else forced him. Adam, and subsequently us, chose out of his own heart.

The Christian solution to the problem of sin is a radical departure from what other religions provide for it is centered in the person and work of Jesus Christ. Through His perfect sacrifice, which has the effect of blotting out believers’ sins, we have once again become righteous in GOD’s eyes. But that righteousness does not give us the license to do as we please. We must still seek to do GOD’s perceptive will even as we navigate through the dangerous waters of the moral, ethical and social morass of this age.

I used the writings of R.C. Sproul, John Calvin, Martin Luther, Saint Augustine of HIppo, and Jonathan Edwards to compile these thoughts.

[Fairmountain]

Interesting conversation - very helpful thank you!

[alexhasquestions]

My two cents:

 

Since Adam was created perfect, and was in a perfect environment, and lacked nothing, he is qualifiyed to represent the best mankind could be.

 

The perfect man, in the perfect environment, lacking nothing he needed, still sinned. Therefore, any one of us would (and has) done the same thing. 

How would you be able know this? You were never given the opportunity to even be in the same position as Adam. You never had a blank slate to begin with. None of us have which is also seems very unfair. Adam was brought into existence unadulterated and sinless yet we are brought into existence corrupt with a broken relationship that we have to fix.

 

Using your own words, if every perfect man lacking nothing would do the same thing as Adam why wouldn't every perfect angel lacking nothing do the same thing as Satan?

Why didn't every perfect angel do the same thing Satan did? It seems silly to me that you would believe any man would turn against God eventually if they were in Adam's position.

 

My point is I never had the same opportunity as Adam did.

[Flagesapen]

Hi Alex. You know that God is your creator.so you also know that he knew you before you were even born that he stitched you together in your mothers belly.that he has plans for you to prosper plans of hope and a future. That future and hope is found in Jesus. While Adam and eve both ate from the tree which causes sin to come upon all men.which are from his blood line(all of us are of this). they were warned about that tree which fruit would kill them and bring death and seperation from God. They having free will chose to eat it. Knowing that their offspring would suffer too for they were to multipli and fill the earth. While you might not think you should be responsible for their choice .which is true you did not cause them to eat. But you inherited their sins just as someone with a disease might inherent it from there parents.you have made many mistakes on your own I'm sure for I know I have also.and it was by choice. Yet we also now have the choice to be forgiven for all things. If you choose forgiveness which is found in Jesus you don't have to worry about damnation. because the price to pay for our sins and the sins of Adam and eve have been paid in full. Now as far as the angels go. Satan and the ones that followed his lies. Will be punished forever in hell. I don't doubt that they too knew what they were doing would seperate them from God also.however there were ones who did not rebel and held true to God's words and will.and they chose God. So just like us if we choose Jesus who is God in the flesh. They also will not be punished. And we with the holy angels will live with our Father who is in heaven. Because the blood shed by Christ Jesus. covers us and we are no longer inheriting Adams sins we are now heirs and joint heirs with Christ as God's children . Pure and free from sin... this is fair and just.for those angels who chose to be with Satan live in sin as those who are human and are choosing to live with sin will both be punished the same.so are those who choose God are going to be with everlasting life.which was his plan that we remain with him in perfection forever.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Alex...

    

 

So far I am still disappointed and upset at the fact no one has been able to provide me with a satisfying response.         posted by aexhasquestions

       I cannot help but think,after everyone's efforts ,that perhaps you are not satisfied because you are just not hearing the answer that you are looking for.Clearly,it is obvious that the answers to your questions are the same(or very similar)& going to continue to be the same from Christians......Gods Word is consistent ,it is never changing just as He is ....so the answer is not going to change.What is disappointing or even upsetting to you must be that you don't like the answer but everyone here is merely sharing Gods Truth with you & whether or not you accept it it your choice,,,,,the same way you have the choice to accept the Only WAY to be reconciled back to God (Jesus)......not to debate that what God does is not what you think is a good or bad plan......He is Sovereign God Almighty,Creator of the universe & everything& everyone in it........and believe it or not,He is the best One to answer your questions.........have you ever tried reading His Word,with an open heart & mind?It is called the 'Living Word",He will reveal Himself to you if you earnestly seek Him.....

     As I said earlier,if you really believe that you are not accountable for any sin & Adam & Eve have nothing to do with you & you do not need a Savior because you are without sin(& you would not have taken part of eating the forbidden fruit,had it been you)......you are absolutely free to be judged by the Law when the time comes......as a matter of fact,every single person that has rejected Jesus & has not Faith in Him will stand before the Throne of God in Judgement ....not for anyone else's sin,just accountable for their own life.....so,that is fair,isn't it?God will not hold you accountable for the fall of man in the Garden of Eden.....

    I really hope that from getting the same answer time & time again,that instead of questioning why Gods Plan is what it is you will see that in that Plan He provided a way for you to be with Him for all eternity,because He loves you ,in spite of you.........Jesus is ready & willing to embrace you and forgive any sin you have ever committed ...............you are loved Alex,good plan,bad plan,Adams sin,your sin,my sin,corrupt world,none of it matters if you choose Jesus

   God Bless you ,I am praying for you                                                                                 With love-in Christ,kwik

[Guest]

The punishment for sin is for the sins you commit. Not one person is without sin. The Lord, knowing people would sin, provided a way for their sins to be paid for. Get to know Jesus. He is your escape from punishment for sin.

But why is it I have to work towards a relationship with God in the first place? Why is it broken?

Your sins keep you from God. There is only one way to repair that: through Jesus.

Exactly. My sins keep me from God. But my question revolves around the idea that why does Adam/Eve's sins keep me from God?

Adam and Eve's sins aren't what keep you from God. Because Adam and Eve ate the fruit, humanity is enlightened to make a decision: sin, or obedience to God. The weight of Adam and Eve's transgressions don't fall on you; you weren't born guilty, you were born with sinful tendencies due to your knowledge of good versus evil. Because of them, you have the knowledge to choose a way to exist. So, their decision hasn't stained you-- their decision has given you the potential choice to stain yourself or to deliberately choose fellowship with God.

God made it this way because He wants us to be able to choose Him or choose ourselves. He doesn't want to force us into relationship with Him. He gave humanity the freedom of choice and a conscience.

[JustG]

Very clear, precise, on target 

[JustG]

My two cents:

 

Since Adam was created perfect, and was in a perfect environment, and lacked nothing, he is qualifiyed to represent the best mankind could be.

 

The perfect man, in the perfect environment, lacking nothing he needed, still sinned. Therefore, any one of us would (and has) done the same thing. 

 

Further, since we are God's creation, we are His do do with as He pleases, and we are not in a position to dictate to Him, waht He can do or cannot do, should do, or should not do, and as morally imperfect, we basically have no standing. 

 

All blame is on us, and we are righteously judged for our sins.

 

Thankfully though, God has provided a solution, where we do not need to be perfect to avoid the consequences of our sins and His righteous judgement.