Persuaded Posted July 18, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2014 You're using "transgression" so I'll assume you're referring to 1 Tim 2:14, quoted earlier. So Eve didn't sin? A transgression isn't a sin? Several translations render this same word as sin or sinner. It's use throughout the rest of the NT is in relation to breaking the law, even used to refer to Adam's transgression. So if Adam sinned, so did Eve! We aren't guilty of Adam's sin, but we have inherited his sin nature. Before sinning, they knew no sin. I think that is what is meant by the "knowledge of sin". Nakedness was not a sin, but after sinning an awareness of their lack of righteousness (clothing is almost always scripturally linked to righteousness, here especially so) is what caused them to seek clothing. And it's instructive to note that this is the first act of religion- they tried through the works of their own hands to put on righteousness by sewing garmets of fig leaves, and God corrects them by making them coats of skins and thereby signifying that by the shedding of blood they would be covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 19, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,039 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,782 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 19, 2014 Eve did it from deception.....there is a difference... Remember that Eve didn't hear God give them the directions as far as we know. Appearantly Adam told her that if she touched the fruit she would die..... The snake showed her that wasn't the case and talked her into eating the fruit. Adam on the other hand knew exactly what God had told him and had no excuse as far as I can see, and it appears that God agreed and laid all the blame on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted July 19, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Eve did it from deception.....there is a difference... Remember that Eve didn't hear God give them the directions as far as we know. Appearantly Adam told her that if she touched the fruit she would die..... The snake showed her that wasn't the case and talked her into eating the fruit. Adam on the other hand knew exactly what God had told him and had no excuse as far as I can see, and it appears that God agreed and laid all the blame on him. So why did Eve receive extra punishment (pain during childbirth)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 19, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,039 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,782 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 19, 2014 Eve did it from deception.....there is a difference... Remember that Eve didn't hear God give them the directions as far as we know. Appearantly Adam told her that if she touched the fruit she would die..... The snake showed her that wasn't the case and talked her into eating the fruit. Adam on the other hand knew exactly what God had told him and had no excuse as far as I can see, and it appears that God agreed and laid all the blame on him. So why did Eve receive extra punishment (pain during childbirth)? For giving Adam the fruit to eat. She had already eaten of it and had to know that was wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reformed Baptist Posted July 19, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 235 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/16/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1973 Share Posted July 19, 2014 The "following" I'm referring to happened earlier, in Gen 3:6, when Adam chose to also eat the fruit. That is when Adam made a choice and was not deceived. Exile from the garden was the result of their sin. I guess in my mind the act of eating is equivalent to the exile, which is what's implied in Gen 2:17. No, Gen 2:17 does not imply exile, it expresses death. "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." When Adam ate the fruit he wasn't subjecting himself to exile, he was subjecting himself to instant spiritual death (separation from God) that would result in his physical death (separation of body and soul) and unless he repented (eternal death of utter separation from God). This was no heroic act on his part of choosing to sacrifice himself for his wife as you seem to be presenting it, rather it was direct rebellion to the clear command that God had given him. Or are you saying that Eve could have sinned, and not been exiled??? -that's not the significance I see in the him and man in v23-24; rather that he as the head of his family in a patriarchal setting was driven out, and therefore his family (Eve) with him. I think you need to look at the text again, it does not say that women (she wasn't called Eve till after the Garden!) went to find Adam to give him the fruit to it, it implies that he was with her when the serpent came - instead of stopping her, instead of correcting her misrepresentation of what God had said he not only allowed her to eat the fruit but ate it with her so no, Eve could not have sinned without Adam in that situation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cog Posted July 19, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 143 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 19, 2014 Keep in mind who is head of who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reformed Baptist Posted July 19, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 235 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/16/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1973 Share Posted July 19, 2014 i don't believe the Bible says that Eve Sinned..... it says she fell into transgression because she was quite deceived.. What is transgression if it isn't sin? Eve did it from deception.....there is a difference... Remember that Eve didn't hear God give them the directions as far as we know. Appearantly Adam told her that if she touched the fruit she would die..... The snake showed her that wasn't the case and talked her into eating the fruit. I am not sure that argument works. We are not told if woman's misrepresentation's of God's command was her own or Adam's - all we know is she did misrepresentation the command. Beside's just because one is deceived does not absolve one of responsibility for one's actions does it? If I am deceived into thinking killing a person is a good thing, so I go ahead and kill him I can still expect to found guilty of a crime. Adam on the other hand knew exactly what God had told him and had no excuse as far as I can see, and it appears that God agreed and laid all the blame on him. It is much more then that - Adam was responsible for woman and for the whole human race. this is key to whole gospel message, If God isn't dealing with humanity in Adam, he can't also deal with humanity in Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 19, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 595 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,039 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,782 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 19, 2014 I am not sure that argument works. We are not told if woman's misrepresentation's of God's command was her own or Adam's - all we know is she did misrepresentation the command. Beside's just because one is deceived does not absolve one of responsibility for one's actions does it? If I am deceived into thinking killing a person is a good thing, so I go ahead and kill him I can still expect to found guilty of a crime. It's done in our court system quite often.... I'm not sure about Gods. When Adam and Eve were running around naked did God hold that against them until they understood it was wrong. Does God hold little kids accountable until they reach a point in their development that they understand...... or mentally ill people? I don't really want to make that much of a deal out if it though, for I do believe that God really set the whole thing up so that Satan would be responsible for the humans to know good from evil so we could make a good jury for judging the angels. I do not believe that God ever intended for us to live forever in these bodies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Posted July 19, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 147 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 28 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/02/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 19, 2014 Let me now sum up this topic, and at the same time add some material, which I trust will be of help. I have extracted it from my subject, "The fall of man, an alternative view." At Rom 5:14, we are told that, Adam, was a type of the one who was to come. We are also told at, 1Ti 2:14, that, Adam wasn't deceived, he knows just what he is doing. And then at, 1Ti 2:15 but she will be saved through her child-bearing. Now how much childbearing had she done?, Non, can she fertilize herself? No. Only her husband can do that for her, but he is sinless, and perfect, and can have no contact with that which is sinful Apart from Adam and Eve, the Human race has not yet been started, and if it isn't started then the kinsman redeemer cannot be born into it. The only way in which mankind can be started, is if he becomes like her, a sinner, remember, he is not deceived, he knows just what he is doing. Does he go to the tree as she had done. No he does not. He goes to her, and takes the fruit from her hand and partakes thereof. Symbolic of Jesus coming to us, and taking our sin to Himself. May the Lord bless you, and keep you safe. Edwin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 19, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 19, 2014 Let me now sum up this topic, and at the same time add some material, which I trust will be of help. I have extracted it from my subject, "The fall of man, an alternative view." At Rom 5:14, we are told that, Adam, was a type of the one who was to come. We are also told at, 1Ti 2:14, that, Adam wasn't deceived, he knows just what he is doing. And then at, 1Ti 2:15 but she will be saved through her child-bearing. Now how much childbearing had she done?, Non, can she fertilize herself? No. Only her husband can do that for her, but he is sinless, and perfect, and can have no contact with that which is sinful Apart from Adam and Eve, the Human race has not yet been started, and if it isn't started then the kinsman redeemer cannot be born into it. The only way in which mankind can be started, is if he becomes like her, a sinner, remember, he is not deceived, he knows just what he is doing. Does he go to the tree as she had done. No he does not. He goes to her, and takes the fruit from her hand and partakes thereof. Symbolic of Jesus coming to us, and taking our sin to Himself. May the Lord bless you, and keep you safe. Edwin.So I am clear with what you are posting, are you saying that Adam was sinless? That his direct disobedience to Gods command to him is not a sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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