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Here we go again! Pretribbers, what do you have?

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The debate continues, and I suppose it will until/if the church finds itself recognizing that the antichrist/man of sin/beast/son of perdition/abomination that cuases desolation/etc. has been revealed and recognized.

 

So, here is what I am asking, this is the question that this thread is about:

 

Where in the bible is it stated, or which combination of verses do you believe imply (evidentially, not wishfully) that there is either:

 

  • a secret coming of Jesus for the church before the great tribulation
  • an invisible coming of Jesus for the church
  • a two part second advent
  • a scriptural distinction of Jesus coming for His church, versus His coming with His church

From my perspective, in case it is not obvious, the only thing invisible about Jesus coming, is that it is that the pre-trib rapture is invisible in the sense that it is no where to be found in scripture.

 

Some of you disagree, what I am asking then, is for the biblical basis, the scriptural evidence, for one or more of the bulleted points (•) above. Some of you are so sure that Jesus will return before the great tribulation, that certainly you must have biblical evident of the truth or likelyhood, of the pre-trib return of Christ.

 

To those who want to reply in this thread:

Please stick to the premise of it, scriptural evidence for a coming of Jesus to catch up His church to be with Him prior to the great tribulation.

 

I know that I am asking a lot of people to stay on topic. I understand that people are passionate about their eschatological beliefs. However, please exercise some self control and not start in with a statement of or defense of your own, other than pre-trib persuasion.

 

Let's let this thread be limited to actual scriptural evidence of a pre-trib rapture.

 

Opposing viewpoints are o.k., but limit those to just enough to present an answer to any posts claiming to present scriptural evidence of a pre-trib rapture, without making it about what you believe instead.

 

To those taking up the challenge presented here, please note that I have gone to great lengths to be specific in limiting the type of posts appropriate to this thread. For example:

 

  • Stating that "the rapture is Jesus coming for His church before the trib" is a definition of your belief, and is not scriptural evidence, such a statement is just an opinion, and is evidence that you believe, not for your belief.
  • Stating things like "the church is not mentioned after verse such and such in Revelation", is also not evidence, it is merely an argument from silence.
  • Stating that "the church is not destined to suffer God's wrath" is also not evidence, unless you can prove that the whole to the great tribulation is in fact the wrath of God, and that if the church is present for that, that she cannot and will not be protected from God's wrath during the great tribulation

Hopefully, examples like those above, will convey the idea of what I am seeking, and that you can understand the nature of evidence as opposed to statements of faith in your doctrine. The idea here, is to present some quality reasons to believe in the pre-trib rapture. So here you have an opportunity. Please, give it a shot if you think that you have scriptural evidence.

 

Thanks in advance

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LOOK

 

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

 

Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

 

For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

 

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

 

Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

 

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Luke 21:20-27
 

UP~!

 

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. Luke 21:28

 

~

 

Here we go again! Pretribbers, what do you have?

 

:thumbsup:

 

Pre, Mid, Post 

 

Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

 

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Matthew 27:50-53

 

They All Have The Resurrection

 

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. John 5:22-25

 

Of The Blessed

 

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

 

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:5-6

 

And Beloved, I Am Blessed To Know You All

 

Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

 

It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;

 

As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion:

 

for there the LORD commanded the blessing,

 

even life for evermore. Psalms 133

 

Amen~!

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Here we go again! Pretribbers, what do you have?

 

hope?

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:soapbox::swordfightsmiles:

 

I do enjoy these pre-trib vs. post-trib duels.

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Omegaman knows there is no evidence in the Bible for a pre-trib rapture. All they have is hope.

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I don't know of one single verse that pinpoints a mid - trib, pre - wrath or post - trib position.  If God the Father is the only one who knows when the Son (Bridegroom) is coming to retrieve His Bride;  It is not revealed in Scripture.  All I know that is the John 14 says it all.  I go to prepare a place for you in my Fathers House.  I am going there (My Fathers House) to prepare a place for you (us the Bride), and if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back (for the Rapture) and take you to be with me, that you maybe where I am (In My Fathers House).  Yet Post -Trib believes we will be with Christ here on earth, not with Him in Heaven.

 

I go by, the First 69 Weeks of Daniel were all about Israel, and so will the 70th Week;  All about Israel,  I do not see the Church mentioned anywhere in the 70 Weeks of Daniel.  I only see Israel and Jerusalem.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

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I don't know of one single verse that pinpoints a mid - trib, pre - wrath or post - trib position.  If God the Father is the only one who knows when the Son (Bridegroom) is coming to retrieve His Bride;  It is not revealed in Scripture.  All I know that is the John 14 says it all.  I go to prepare a place for you in my Fathers House.  I am going there (My Fathers House) to prepare a place for you (us the Bride), and if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back (for the Rapture) and take you to be with me, that you maybe where I am (In My Fathers House).  Yet Post -Trib believes we will be with Christ here on earth, not with Him in Heaven.

 

I go by, the First 69 Weeks of Daniel were all about Israel, and so will the 70th Week;  All about Israel,  I do not see the Church mentioned anywhere in the 70 Weeks of Daniel.  I only see Israel and Jerusalem.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Amen, Montana Marv!

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Omegaman knows there is no evidence in the Bible for a pre-trib rapture. All they have is hope.

 

But you do not?

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I have more than hope, I have faith the Lord will deliver me into or out of whatever he wishes. I'm not putting my hope in a pre-trib rapture.

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I have more than hope, I have faith the Lord will deliver me into or out of whatever he wishes. I'm not putting my hope in a pre-trib rapture.

 

Ahhh, but we share the SAME hope, but as believers, we differ about nonessentials.

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