Why can't we understand what sin is?

[OneLight]

 

For this reason, I desire to discuss what we are suppose to be doing, not what we are not suppose to be doing, feeding my spirit is what is right, not what is wrong.  He will convict me of sin when the time comes.

 

 

The only issue I have with that is what do you say to Paul who had the church at Corinth put people out of the church for fornication and incest?  If I were to apply that to his situation, I would have to allow them to remain as members in good standing until God showed them they were in error.  I would simply show them love and preach that they should walk in the Spirit, and hope they actually do that.  I understand your position One Light, but I still see potential problems with it, and ways it goes against at least some patterns I see in the New Testament. 

 

 

Please read my words again.  I stated I desire to discuss what we are suppose to be doing.  I never claimed I should not approach sin when sin is evident.  You are replying to a false pretense of what I said.

[other one]

Interesting how discussing what "sin is", sin is committed.  Instead of worrying about what sin is, adhere to what Christ spoke pertaining to the two greatest commandments and you will not go wrong.  Allow yourself to be directed more and more by the Holy Spirit and there will be no concern what sin is.

 

Matthew 22:37-40

 

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

If sin is defined as breaking the law, then follow His two commandments and you will not be enticed to sin.

 

I've been saying that here for ten years....

[Guest LadyC]

i am with ya 100%... although there are areas of scripture on which you and i disagree, it's usually a disagreement on whom was being addressed in scripture and why. (i.e. the cutting of a woman's hair, the wearing of pants, etc.) we've gone round and round pretty heatedly over the wearing of pants, and you'd probably think i was the worst kind of heathen for having decided last week for the first time in my life to whack my hair off. but those are issues for another thread..... a thread that i fully intend to avoid if it gets started! 

[Reformed Baptist]

 

 

 

Is it just me or is their a lot of confusion over what sin actually is? Sin is not breaking my or your moral code. Sin is not breaking the traditions of men. The bible is very specific about what sin is.

 

1 John 3:4

Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

Why is there so much confusion over what is sin? Is it because so many say we are not obligated to obey any of the law ?  Is it a lack of understanding about the Crucifixion and it's affect on us and the NT/ OT?

 

It just seems that every time I turn on the TV, read a post from a thread or a blog, somebody is coming up with a new meaning of what sin is. I heard or read some where recently that if the NT didn't say it was a sin, then it wasn't a sin. (There is a lot that is sin that the NT don't cover, like Rape for instance). Where did the thought come from that if something offends somebody then it's sin for everyone? Or That everyone can decide for themselves what sin is ( most would call this personal revelation).

 

Just curious if it is just me or if anyone else sees it. It's almost like we the church need to go back to basics and start with the simple things again, like What is sin? 

 

What is sin?

 

Sin is the transgression of the law

 

Why is the above so hard to understand?

Comments and elaborations welcome.

 

Firestormx

Joseph

 

 

 

I agree that the church needs to get back to basics.

 

Sin certainly is transgression of the law, and that is good 'bumper sticker theology' but it needs a little more unpacking then that

 

For example;

 

1) What does 'transgress' mean?

2) To what 'law' is John referring? 

 

Think for a moment about the sermon on the mount where the Lord Jesus Christ takes a series of six examples from the law and shows how it is possible to transgress those laws in the heart, so for example a heart of anger towards another person is transgression of the law not to kill! 

 

Nor is this all that sin is, Paul has another definition! Romans 14:23 ....whatever is not from faith is sin. (NKJ) here Paul presents sin in a far more far reaching way then John does in his first epistle. He presents sin as being anything at all that is not of faith. So, for example, keeping the a law of God through our own efforts would still be sin in light of Rom 14:23!

 

There is also much more to be said as well, for example;

 

1) sin is what leads to death (Rom 6:23),

2) sin is anything that separates us from God (Is 59:2) 

 

The scripture in Romans is not giving a definition of what sin is.  It is mentioning a specific sin, lack of faith. 

Yes the context is faith, but the phrase "for whatever is not from faith is sin." (Rom 14:23 NKJ) is an explanation for why lacking faith is sinful, Paul is appealing to general rule to back up his point. So, Paul is applying a far reaching definition of sin that extends beyond transgression of a set of laws.

 

 

Something I have found funny is that I get called legalistic by people and accused of creating sin where there is none when I make an application of the law to modern day life, yet the same people will expand the definition of sin when it is convenient to them, and create new sins.  They will take scriptures like "all wrong doing is sin," and use that to make anything they don't like out to be wrong doing.  I never cross that line.  If I call something a sin, it has to be based on actual laws of God.  For example, based on a scripture in Leviticus, I will say tattoos are a sin.  Using the method of some, I could call tattoos a sin just because I don't like them and claim they come under the heading of wrong doing.  

 

I have never suggested you are legalistic! I do however hope you are consistent in your application of the Mosaic law and the application of the proper punishments  

 

As for Tatoos that is neither here nor their, though I do agree with you that the scriptures are against the practise! And I am in full agreement with you that it is not up to us to define what is and what isn't sin in the lives of others. It is God who defines what is sin and what isn't! However I am also aware that Paul tells us that if we do something believing it to be sinful then we sin

 

 

 

I could further state that there is no NT scripture that endorses putting ink under you skin, so it has to be sin.  Sin has a Biblical meaning.  It isn't just some word to mean whatever is convenient to us at a given time.  The Bible definition of sin is "the transgression of the law." 

 

Again, that is overly narrow, and further more without a proper explanation of what it means to 'transgress' and what 'the law' is it is a meaningless bumper sticker sin involves the breaking of God's moral law certainly, but it is not limited to that and we need to stop limiting God's definitions of sin to something we feel we can handle - that is what the pharisees had done! 

 

 

 

 

 

[Willa]

 

 

Interesting how discussing what "sin is", sin is committed.

Will you please explain this? Is this saying by asking a question I am sinning?

 

No, not at all. Your question is harmless and often asked. Yet, by reading the thread through, you will see that by focusing in sin, we sin. If we focus in Christ, we will have a much lesser tendency to sin. My point is, what is our focus to be?

 

 

 

 

  Instead of worrying about what sin is, adhere to what Christ spoke pertaining to the two greatest commandments and you will not go wrong.  Allow yourself to be directed more and more by the Holy Spirit and there will be no concern what sin is.

 

Matthew 22:37-40

 

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

If sin is defined as breaking the law, then follow His two commandments and you will not be enticed to sin.

 

 

I so agree with Onelight here.  Peter could only walk on water by keeping his eyes on Jesus.  We can only walk in the Spirit by keeping our eyes on Jesus.

When I go on a diet, I must focus on all the things that are good for me that I can eat.  If I list the things I cannot eat and focus on them, temptation overwhelms me and I fail.   A Christian psychologist once told me that you become like what you focus on.  We become like the person we hate.  We do the deeds we hate as in Romans 7.  But we walk in the Spirit by focusing on Christ and the things He wants us to do.  Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.NKJV

 

However, the law is the schoolmaster that leads us to Christ.  As such it should be taught to those who have not come to Christ as yet, and to all children. Our constant failure to keep the law is what shows us how badly we need our Savior.  After we have come to Christ we need to know that only His life in us is able to lead the Christian life--Christ in us the hope of glory.  Then we learn to walk in the Spirit and love as He loved.  

 

So I do believe that our nation should be taught the Mosaic law and that our civil laws should be based on the 10 commandments, especially.

But are all of you really prepared to kill both an incestuous father and the child between 1 and 8 years old that he raped?  Yes, this is one law that find particularly hard to swallow.  I can't imagine killing an innocent victim of cruelty.  Nor can I imagine Christ doing that.  I can imagine Him comforting the little ones and doing as he did with the woman caught in adultery--applying the mercy and grace of God's righteous compassion.  Every one of us is a sinner saved by God's wonderful grace.  God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.  John 3:17

[Reformed Baptist]

 

 

However, the law is the schoolmaster that leads us to Christ.  As such it should be taught to those who have not come to Christ as yet, and to all children. Our constant failure to keep the law is what shows us how badly we need our Savior.  After we have come to Christ we need to know that only His life in us is able to lead the Christian life--Christ in us the hope of glory.  Then we learn to walk in the Spirit and love as He loved.  

 

Yet Jesus said to his disciples, John 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments." if there is no active effort on the part of the individual to do the will of God in our daily lives, in the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, that person does not love him!