The word 'olam'

[Butch5]

 

You keep saying that but there's no reason not to take it literally.

 

I am taking it literally.   The problem here is that you are taking it at face value.  You appear to take any usage of the word Gehenna and apply it in a one dimensional, face value approach.   I am understanding the usage and I look for the literal meaning and intent behind it.  That's what "literal" means.  It means to understand the text in the light of the object the author has in view.

 

Then you claim it's a metaphorical usage. You haven't given me any reason at all as to why I should understand this as a metaphor. People have burned there several times as a result of God's judgement. When God brought  Nebuchadnezzar to judge the Jews it happened, when He brought Rome to against the Jews it happened and Jesus said it's gonna happen at Armageddon and that it was where the wicked will burn. With all of these judgement actually occurring in Gehenna, I'm supposed to believe that one is a metaphor? Sorry, I don't buy that, all of the others are literal occurrences, I believe the last one will be too. 

 

There's also another reason to accepts that Gehenna is the actual place of burning. The idea of Eternal Contentious Torment requires a belief in the idea of Platonic Dualism, which isn't Biblical.

[JohnD]

Since 'olam' doesn't mean forever and is a Hebrew word, and 'everlasting' and 'eternal' are English translations,

then wouldn't hell be temporary since English translations can be wrong.

Also, why is it ok to use the word 'olam' when describing hell,

but it's ok to use the words 'everlasting' and 'eternal' when describing eternal life.

 

Strong's Hebrew #5769 ...been from of old, from everlastinga. 3Therefore ...

5769 `owlam { o-lawm’} or `olam { o-lawm’}

from 5956; TWOT - 1631a; n m

AV - ever 272, everlasting 63, old 22, perpetual 22, evermore 15, never 13, time 6, ancient 5, world 4, always 3, alway 2, long 2, more 2, never + 408 2, misc 6; 439

GK - 6409 { עֹולָם }

1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world

1a) ancient time, long time (of past)

1b) (of future)

1b1) for ever, always

1b2) continuous existence, perpetual

1b3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

 

 

[Butch5]

 

Since 'olam' doesn't mean forever and is a Hebrew word, and 'everlasting' and 'eternal' are English translations,

then wouldn't hell be temporary since English translations can be wrong.

Also, why is it ok to use the word 'olam' when describing hell,

but it's ok to use the words 'everlasting' and 'eternal' when describing eternal life.

 

Strong's Hebrew #5769 ...been from of old, from everlastinga. 3Therefore ...

5769 `owlam { o-lawm’} or `olam { o-lawm’}

from 5956; TWOT - 1631a; n m

AV - ever 272, everlasting 63, old 22, perpetual 22, evermore 15, never 13, time 6, ancient 5, world 4, always 3, alway 2, long 2, more 2, never + 408 2, misc 6; 439

GK - 6409 { עֹולָם }

1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world

1a) ancient time, long time (of past)

1b) (of future)

1b1) for ever, always

1b2) continuous existence, perpetual

1b3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

 

 

 

John,

 

If you look at how olam is used in the OT I think you'll see it can't mean forever, even though those who wrote the dictionaries claim it does

[JohnD]

I've checked everlasting = olam.

 

If you are hung up on a covenant that was to be everlasting but wasn't because man broke the covenant doesn't mean God wasn't going to keep up his side of the bargain for everlasting. 

 

Could it be yours is a presuppositional category error (because you believe it meant x and not y so therefore it cannot mean y)... ?

[Fraught]

I'm confused as to why the original post stated that 'Olam had anything to do with hell.  I was taught that there have been more than one 'Olam.  Not to add more confusion to the subject, of course, haha.  (no, seriously, we have a biblical passage that states 'from olam to olam'.  let me find it.  Okay, I'm going to type in a few excerpts

 

from now until olam translated as "from everlasting even to everlasting" in 1 Chron 16:36, Psalm 41:13, Psalm 90:2, etc.  , translated "from this time forth and forever" in psalm 125:2, isaiah 59:21, Micah 4:7, etc.

 

.....The Prophets indicate the future 'olam is, like every 'olam in the past, a specific point in time.  from The Voice of Elijah Newsletter, Volume 11, Number 3.

 

The author continues:  Anyone who wants to claim that 'olam doesn't refer to the past as well as the future will have to do some rather fancy semantic footwork to explain not only the meaning of the phrases "from 'olam" and "unitl olam"  . . . . ..  They will also have to explain why the author of the Book of Ecclesiastes plainly tells us there has already been more than one 'olam.:  Is there anything of which one might say, "See this, it is new"? Already it has existed for ages (olam) which were before us.  (Ecclesiastes 1:10)

[dscapp]

If you look at how olam is used in the OT I think you'll see it can't mean forever, even though those who wrote the dictionaries claim it does

 

Didn't the OT describe eternal life also with word 'olam'.

[Butch5]

I've checked everlasting = olam.

 

If you are hung up on a covenant that was to be everlasting but wasn't because man broke the covenant doesn't mean God wasn't going to keep up his side of the bargain for everlasting. 

 

Could it be yours is a presuppositional category error (because you believe it meant x and not y so therefore it cannot mean y)... ?

Or it could be that those who write the dictionaries have presuppositions that they're imposing on their definitions. You're talking about the words of men, I'm talking about the words of God.

[Butch5]

 

If you look at how olam is used in the OT I think you'll see it can't mean forever, even though those who wrote the dictionaries claim it does

 

Didn't the OT describe eternal life also with word 'olam'.

 

The only place I found in the OT that uses owlam and chayay together is Gen.3:22.

 

KJV  Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (Gen 3:22 KJV)

[Butch5]

I'm confused as to why the original post stated that 'Olam had anything to do with hell.  I was taught that there have been more than one 'Olam.  Not to add more confusion to the subject, of course, haha.  (no, seriously, we have a biblical passage that states 'from olam to olam'.  let me find it.  Okay, I'm going to type in a few excerpts

 

from now until olam translated as "from everlasting even to everlasting" in 1 Chron 16:36, Psalm 41:13, Psalm 90:2, etc.  , translated "from this time forth and forever" in psalm 125:2, isaiah 59:21, Micah 4:7, etc.

 

.....The Prophets indicate the future 'olam is, like every 'olam in the past, a specific point in time.  from The Voice of Elijah Newsletter, Volume 11, Number 3.

 

The author continues:  Anyone who wants to claim that 'olam doesn't refer to the past as well as the future will have to do some rather fancy semantic footwork to explain not only the meaning of the phrases "from 'olam" and "unitl olam"  . . . . ..  They will also have to explain why the author of the Book of Ecclesiastes plainly tells us there has already been more than one 'olam.:  Is there anything of which one might say, "See this, it is new"? Already it has existed for ages (olam) which were before us.  (Ecclesiastes 1:10)

Hi Fraught,

 

I think a good understanding of the word was posted by OneLight in

[dscapp]

 

 

If you look at how olam is used in the OT I think you'll see it can't mean forever, even though those who wrote the dictionaries claim it does

 

Didn't the OT describe eternal life also with word 'olam'.

 

The only place I found in the OT that uses owlam and chayay together is Gen.3:22.

 

KJV  Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (Gen 3:22 KJV)

 

 

You sure there's only one reference. The OT is a pretty big book. Didn't also the NT describe eternal life with the word 'aion'.