Enoch2021 Posted November 13, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I am sure you are perfectly logical and unbiased in your own eyes Enoch2021 And more so than everyone else. Can you list the Qualitative/Quantitative Data that you used to reach your "I am sure" conclusions? So we can assess the VERACITY of your claims. Please.... 1. 2. 3.... Or should we just take this and place it in the long list of Absolute Baseless Assertions. (It's Rhetorical) The only other possibility, Is you have Special Mind Powers @ your disposal that we're not aware of. If so, let me know....I have a TEST for that also I just let the scriptures speak for themselves. Generalized Sweeping Baseless Assertion (Fallacy). And a Reification (Fallacy)----- Scriptures don't "Speak", they don't have a voice box/vocal chords. In conclusion, all these personal slights are just a diversion away from your Baseless Position......They're the "Last Port in The Storm" techniques employed and a "Tell".....for Vapor Based Positions. Plain and Simple. I'm just kidding around with you. You don't need to take it all so seriously No hard feelings. this discussion is going no-where as others have already recognised, lets just leave it at that. Are you implying that I'm a wee bit Intense? I don't do others "opinions". Now Supported TRUTH, I do.... do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENOCH2010 Posted November 13, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 907 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1866 Share Posted November 13, 2014 quote Enoch 2021 I don't do others "opinions". Now Supported TRUTH, I do.... do. Enoch2021, with you being a pre-triber I can't believe you just said that. Everybody knows the pre-trib doctrine is only "opinions" of people. There is zero "supported truth" for it in the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted November 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,582 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,443 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Shalom, Enoch2021. Shalom, Enoch2021 and ARGOSY. Guys, you can’t hope to have an intelligent conversation if you don’t understand the terms! What IS the “gospel of the kingdom?” And, in the words of Abbott and Costello, “I’ll break your arm if you say,” “the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ!" The truth is that the “gospel of the kingdom” has hardly STARTED to be "preached!” First, know the terminology; THEN you can have a meaningful debate! ================================================================================================================= What was our (purported) "Unintelligent Conversation" regarding that led you to believe we would need to Define...."the Gospel of The Kingdom"? And how would that impact or raise our "purported" Unintelligent Conversation to "Intelligent Conversation"? Oh, I don’t know.... Maybe it was this little exchange? +++++ Quote And I'm surprised at your lack of evidence for your strange philosophy that preaching stops during the tribulation. An argument from silence is not a strong argument. I'm actually quite Dumbfounded by this; As Evidenced By: Argument from Silence--is a conclusion based on the absence of statements in historical documents, rather than their presence. Ok you said... "I feel that our purpose does not change during the tribulation, we are to continue to preach and disciple the nations." Then I asked you for support..... Show "The Church" preaching The Gospel in Revelation....? You can't, because there are no statements (absence of statements) in Revelation that show "The Church" preaching the Gospel...so you then concluded the Antithesis, In other words----(Since it doesn't state that there is the preaching of the Gospel by The Church in the "great tribulation"....therefore, the Gospel is Preached by The Church in the "great tribulation") This is a Textbook Example of an Argument from Silence (Fallacy); Ergo....Pot meet kettle Moreover....The Preaching of The Gospel is mentioned in Revelation (as I've shown you): (Revelation 14:6) "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," Which drives home my point even further. Notwithstanding...The lack of evidence is not proof that the contrary is true. However, if evidence can reasonably be expected to be found, then lack of evidence is evidence to the contrary. Can we reasonably expect to find "The Church" Preaching The Gospel during the "great tribulation"? .....you betcha. Not only do we not find "The Church" preaching in the "great tribulation".....we don't find "The Church"! Moreover-furthermore, the base of your premise has "The Church" in the "great tribulation" so as to "preach"----this is a Begging The Question (Fallacy). First prove "The Church" is IN the "great tribulation".....? +++++ Followed by... +++++ I see you are getting quite pedantic about side issues. Jesus gave us the mandate to preach the gospel and disciple the nations, Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. The gospel will be preached and then the end will come. Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. +++++ If the Gospel of the Kingdom is not clarified FIRST, then one might well be assuming that the “Gospel” that the “Church” “preaches” today is the same as the “Gospel of the Kingdom!” (It’s NOT!) Furthermore, one needs to define “preach” AND one needs to define “Church” better! Strong’s does a pretty good job with both: NT:2097 euaggelizoo (yoo-ang-ghel-id'-zo); from NT:2095 and NT:32; to announce good news ("evangelize") especially the gospel: KJV - declare, bring (declare, show) glad (good) tidings, preach (the gospel). NT:2784 keerussoo (kay-roos'-so); of uncertain affinity; to herald (as a public crier), especially divine truth (the gospel): KJV - preacher (-er), proclaim, publish. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) Luke 4:16-21 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. KJV Isaiah 61:1-3 1 The Spirit of the LORD God is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. KJV OT:1319 baasar (baw-sar'); a primitive root; properly, to be fresh, i.e. full (rosy, (figuratively) cheerful); to announce (glad news): -messenger, preach, publish, shew forth, (bear, bring, carry, preach, good, tell good) tidings. OT:7121 qaaraa' (kaw-raw'); a primitive root [rather identical with OT:7122 through the idea of accosting a person met]; to call out to (i.e. properly, address by name, but used in a wide variety of applications): KJV - bewray [self], that are bidden, call (for, forthself,, upon), cry (unto), (be) famous, guest, invite, mention, (give) name, preach, (make) proclaim (-ation), pronounce, publish, read, renowned, say. (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.) "To preach" does NOT mean "to stand up in front of an audience and give a glowing oratory,” nor does it mean “to wax eloquent-uh and raise-uh the volume of one’s voice-uh to the point of SHOUTING-uh!” “Baasar,” translated by the Greek “euaggelizoo,” means “to announce good/glad news!” “Qaaraa’,” translated by the Greek “keerussoo,” spelled “qof-qamets-reish-qamets-alef” and “kappa-eta-rho-upsilon-sigma-sigma-omega” in Greek, means “to call out to” or “to address by name” or “to HERALD (as a TOWN-CRIER)!” “HEAR YE, HEAR YE!” or as Drego would say in the old John Wayne movie, “McClintock," after he discharged a shot from his “hog-leg," “YEEHAW! PEOPLE! PEOPLE! PEOPLE!" One of the jobs of a herald or a town-crier was to announce the soon arrival of a dignitary, particularly royalty! At first, Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist) was Yeshua`s herald; then for a time, Yeshua` had to be His own herald; finally, His talmidiym (students/disciples) became His heralds, announcing His arrival in all the towns and villages of Israel as Yeshua` made His rounds for Yeshua`, offering Israel the Kingdom of God - the SAME KINGDOM over which His ancestor Daveed ruled - until the elders of the Tribe of Y'hudah finally convinced the rest of Y’hudah to reject Him and crucify Him! I’ll say it again: Israel didn’t need anyone to explain the Kingdom of God to them! They didn’t need any explanation for the good news about the Kingdom! They were simply told: Mark 1:14-15 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. KJV Thus, they already KNEW the “Gospel of the Kingdom!” And, what did they know? Isaiah 52:7 7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! KJV That’s it! It was a VERY literal and VERY awesome Kingdom over which God once ruled right after the Exodus from Egypt! Leadership changed, but God was always their King ... until they asked for a human king, like all the other nations around them. With a short lesson about a king interested in his own dynasty, Daveed came on the scene, who acknowledged that YHWH their God was really the King! And, this “Gospel of the Kingdom” did NOT change between the Gospels and the book of Acts! It’s still the SAME GOSPEL with the addendum of the death, burial, and resurrection of the Messiah they were looking for to be the FINAL King of Israel! I’ll get into “church” (ekkleesia) at another time, if necessary. It’s just a group of “called-out” persons, called to assemble together! It should neither be thought to be “universal” or “catholic” (which means the same thing), nor should it be thought to be an entity with a life of its own! The concept of the “church” being a “body,” the “body of Christ” or the “body of the Messiah,” was an analogy to instruct the members of the Corinthian church to work together and support one another, as unto the Messiah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted November 13, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,200 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) While you are all sleeping.......zzzzzzz........ It seems we are getting lost in an eschatological maze. We don`t know the start & can`t find the end. Thus said I would like to do a summary & point out what people have thought. `Where is the Body of Christ in the Millennium?` Some say `on earth,` others state ` in the New Jerusalem, while some believe `in the third heaven.` It has been a lively debate & quite heated at times with many a side track. Still we are being led by the Holy Spirit (if we listen) into all truth & thus it will be good to look at this topic in a few years to see if there is a shift in belief. Could I therefore ask the Moderators to close this discussion please. And a big thank you to all. Marilyn. Edited November 13, 2014 by Marilyn C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch2021 Posted November 13, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,396 Content Per Day: 0.90 Reputation: 730 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/26/1963 Share Posted November 13, 2014 =============================================================================================================== I’ll say it again: Israel didn’t need anyone to explain the Kingdom of God to them! They didn’t need any explanation for the good news about the Kingdom! They were simply told: Mark 1:14-15 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. KJV Thus, they already KNEW the “Gospel of the Kingdom!” And, what did they know? Isaiah 52:7 7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! KJV That’s it! First off, your entire point and post is moot from my perspective. It's my position that the "The Church"-----Born Again Christians, is not found in the "Great Tribulation", Period. So whether it be a question of: "preaching", "running", "cooking", Whatever....and How they were doing it, is Painfully Irrelevant. Second, and maybe you'll have to touch base with Argosy....He wasn't talking about "Preaching"-----The Gospel of the Kingdom or the Gospel, to the Jews exclusively during the "great tribulation", but to all the nations. Please, with one sentence each, define these: The Gospel of the Kingdom.....? The Gospel....? ps. I already defined "The Church" above so.... that'll save you some time/effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 13, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 13, 2014 This thread is closed due to a request from the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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