dscapp Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 The Lord knows what their choice is in advance so He is able to have that be prophetic. But it is nonetheless their free choice. There's always a 'but' in all your guys sentences. Why the but????? No I have no children, and thank God for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 because the point is, just because God knows ahead of time what the choice will be doesn't take the "choice" out of the equation. hence "God knows their choice, but it is still a choice". God knows, and still does not interfere with a person's free will. no buts about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.22 Reputation: 11,242 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2014 The Lord knows what their choice is in advance so He is able to have that be prophetic. But it is nonetheless their free choice. There's always a 'but' in all your guys sentences. Why the but????? No I have no children, and thank God for that. That is just how I write. Remove the word but and it still makes the same sense. You are making too much of this. The Lord knows their choice in advance. It is still nonetheless their free choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2014 It has been my experience when someone approaches the question about free will, they are usually trying to understand something in their lives that they are uncertain about, using an example that is similar, without discussing the underlying issue in their lives. May I ask if this is the case without even entering into what the issue is? I ask because you have been given solid answers, but continue to look for support that we do not have free will. If there is no free will, than how can we ever be held responsible for our sins? If we are not held responsible for our sins, then Christ died in vain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 But God knowing what wiill happen doesn't mean that no one has free will. God knew what you would choose to eat for breakfast or if you would even eat breakfast. But that knowledge doesn't force you to make any particular choice. But I'm not talking about breakfast. I'm talking about hell. Breakfast isn't a horrible place of judgment. Free will is the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces. But it is determined by divine forces because God is divine and is also omnipotent and omniscient. Sorry, but you simply don't know what you are talking about. Everyone has tried to explain it to you, but you are unteachable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 that was harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisCWilson Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Share Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) Than that wold no longer be free will, would it? So he just let's people die nonbelievers? But then again God knew John Smith would die a nonbeliever. That is a question you will have to ask Him. I would think it would be because there will be some who are 100% they will be going to heaven due to their false religion that do not know they are going to be judged in such a manner. Having your life read back to you will highlight why they did not make it. But a person only knows God exists if the Father draws them in. If I were a nonbeliever at the great white throne then I would ask God why he didn't draw me in to salvation! God will only act in direct response to prayer. if your little old grandmother is praying for you, God's going to intervene and do what He can to put you back on the right path... everything short of forcing His will on you. He knows whether His intervention in your life will turn you around or not, but it won't stop Him from trying to persuade you. and true, a mother is not omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. but she knows her child. and the Father knows His children... each of them. the real difference between a human parent and our heavenly Father is that God KNOWS, because He's already seen the future. a mother knows based only on the child's past. God will only act in direct response to prayer only if it aligns with his will. What if it's God's will for the grandson to not repent. Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. Every single person born on planet earth, God reveals to them that he does exist. There are no excuses not to believe, The definition of a "unbeliever" is someone who knows the truth, but has decided not to believe. Anyone who says that they don't believe in God calls them a liar, because God has shown it to them. The Lord knew from the beginning, even before he created the world who would hear the Gospel and believe for salvation. Just because he knows this, does not mean man has no free choice. All of God's elect are those who choose to be his. Edited August 4, 2014 by CurtisCWilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 dscapp, I fully understand where you are coming from. It is hard for people to comprehend the idea that God would create some people for destruction and others to be saved. It is hard for people to believe God would intentionally create vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor, and all serve a purpose, but that is just what he did. It is right there throughout the Bible. I couldn't accept that for years, but after awhile, I had to accept what was right before my eyes. This is another of those "hot button" topics that we will never all agree on. Just don't let people get you discouraged by belittling you. I don't think the problem is that you are not teachable. I think God is teaching you. At first, I wasn't even going to come back in here, but I think that one comment was uncalled for, and I just want you to know that at least one person understands the point you are making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscapp Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 253 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 4, 2014 It is hard for people to comprehend the idea that God would create some people for destruction and others to be saved. Thank you Butero, you have been kind. It still hasn't clicked yet, maybe one day it will. I think these are the deeper mysteries of God that some have a harder time understanding while others find it easy. I really really want this subject to click in my mind so I can understand it. If God is a just and righteous judge then what is just and righteous about creating some people for destruction and others to be saved. Where is the free will in the person who was created for destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2014 In fairness to all, I have not met a believer who did not struggle with this one question. To say that only one understands what you are going through is not the truth. I believe it is more accurate to say that one person believes in predestination. Predestination, as far as I understand the it, basically means that your future is chosen for you before you were born, meaning that if you were not blessed to be chosen to live eternally with God, you will live eternally separated from God. The most popular verse that is quoted in support for predestination is Romans 9:21 "Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?" The most popular rebuttal is found in 2 Timothy 2:21 "Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work." There are a lot of verses that could be thrown out for both sides, but why play scripture Russian Roulette? I have played that game. It is frustrating, time consuming, has the ability to cause one to pull scripture out of context, causes doubt and is very confusing to someone who is struggling. This game is basically a "one up" game, more than likely not ending in edification of our Lord and Savior. May I suggest that, instead of trying to understand if everyone is given a choice to accept Christ, try to understand what it means that Jesus is the Savior. Search scripture to see if Jesus is Savior of the chosen or if Jesus is the Savior of the world. If Jesus is the Savior of the chosen, than predestination is true. If Jesus is Savior of the world, than it is not true. Try coming at it from a different point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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