Last Daze Posted August 6, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) I'd like some thoughts on this question. My initial thought is 'no'. Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of flirting with disaster, just want to make sense of some things. Where it speaks of judgment being carried out it always says it like this: “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand..." . If the mark alone was enough to "send someone to hell" then why add the worship clause? Using the "and" conjunction indicates that both must be in play. I see "receiving the mark" as the first act of worship which is followed by continued worship (complying with the mandates of the image). Can someone realize at some point, say when things really go south, that they've made a bad decision and repent. I think so, but I'm not sure. I think it might part of what the 144,000 do, bear witness and call to repentance. Also, I think the decision to receive the mark or not will be made by everyone in just a couple months or so. Why not just kill them all then? I think the reason is that the judgments of the seventh seal gets progressively worse to try and convince people of their bad decision. The great majority, though, will not see through the deception and will remain stiff-necked in their rebellion. But might some repent as a result? Maybe, but very, very few, kind of like God's searching for that last gold coin or two. Another reason why I think you will be able to repent after receiving the mark is in Acts 2: "And I will grant wonders in the sky aboveAnd signs on the earth below,Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke.The sun will be turned into darknessAnd the moon into blood,Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come.And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." I don't see any exception for those who have received the mark in there. Again, the vast majority won't repent, but why make that statement if it weren't possible? Thoughts? Edited August 7, 2014 by OneLight Made the thread "G" rated. Remember, we have children reading these threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted August 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I always believed that the worship clause is to condemn those who didn't actually take the mark but worshipped the Beast anyway. Because of logistics there will be some who want to take the mark but can't. Maybe there is too long a waiting list or if the mark is done by machine then maybe there just isn't enough time to ensure that all of those those who want it get it. The clause is there to stop people from saying "look see, I don't have actually have the mark, you can't condemn me to the fire". God will know what is in their hearts. However, your post is making me think this over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themessenger2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 18 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/05/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2014 anyone who take the mark will have no chance of repentance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted August 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2014 "And I will grant wonders in the sky above And signs on the earth below, Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke. The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood, Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come. And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." I don't see any exception for those who have received the mark in there. Again, the vast majority won't repent, but why make that statement if it weren't possible? Thoughts? Hi Last Daze. I think it means that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord - before the trumpets blow, and have the knowledge to refuse the mark of the beast will be spared from the wrath of God. After that it will be too late. Many will realise they have made a mistake for taking the mark of the beast, but that mark on them shows who they chose to serve. Once it's there, cannot change it. Can remove the mark if you wish, but your name is still listed as being the property of the Beast. They already traded their inheritance for a bowl of soup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted August 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.04 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2014 I always believed that the worship clause is to condemn those who didn't actually take the mark but worshipped the Beast anyway. Because of logistics there will be some who want to take the mark but can't. Maybe there is too long a waiting list or if the mark is done by machine then maybe there just isn't enough time to ensure that all of those those who want it get it. The clause is there to stop people from saying "look see, I don't have actually have the mark, you can't condemn me to the fire". God will know what is in their hearts. However, your post is making me think this over again. Hi Oakwood Good point. Yes, some might be in line to take it, but die before their turn. Some might take the mark to do trade, but hate their new leader (eg Muslems) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 7, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,786 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2014 Would you really bet your soul that one can take the mark and repent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted August 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 Would you really bet your soul that one can take the mark and repent? Absolutely not, it just seemed strange the way it was worded, that "received the mark" and "worship the image" were always together...like it took both. Just soliciting feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted August 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 Revelation 14: 9-11 is clear what happens to those who take the mark or worship the beast or his image. The NASB uses "and" not "or". If it were "or" there would be no question. That's just why it seems odd to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted August 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 "And I will grant wonders in the sky above And signs on the earth below, Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke. The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood, Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come. And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." I don't see any exception for those who have received the mark in there. Again, the vast majority won't repent, but why make that statement if it weren't possible? Thoughts? Hi Last Daze. I think it means that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord - before the trumpets blow, and have the knowledge to refuse the mark of the beast will be spared from the wrath of God. After that it will be too late. Many will realise they have made a mistake for taking the mark of the beast, but that mark on them shows who they chose to serve. Once it's there, cannot change it. Can remove the mark if you wish, but your name is still listed as being the property of the Beast. They already traded their inheritance for a bowl of soup. Hi Sister, I'm not sure how you see the seals unfolding. I think the mark is given during the fifth seal, after the warfare of the first four seals. This is when the worship or die ultimatum is given and believers are martyred. Then the sixth seal coincides with the above quoted passage, then the seventh seal with God's judgment (trumpets/vials). Are you saying that up until the sixth seal that those who have received the mark can repent but once the trumpets blow, the option is off the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 7, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,786 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2014 Revelation 14: 9-11 is clear what happens to those who take the mark or worship the beast or his image. The NASB uses "and" not "or". If it were "or" there would be no question. That's just why it seems odd to me. It is my understanding that the Greek also speaks in terms of and....... To me personally it means that one can not receive the mark unless one worships the beast or his image. Remember that those not written in the book of life will be enamored by the beast and think he's a good idea. Also remember that Jesus told us that we can not be snatched out of the hands of the Father, so there is literally no way we can be tricked or accidentally worship the beast, his image or accept his mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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