church cancels gay man's funeral

[Sevenseas]

yes...that is right.  God does love us and want us to be reconciled to Him.

 

However, God is holy and He will not accept someone who has not accepted His Son.

 

God says in His word that homsexuals will not enter heaven so there is no judgement of the person other then what God Himself says.

 

This is not something that I decided.  God decided it a long time ago.

 

 

 

it's up to The Lord to free of us of that if he chooses to.

 

We have a choice......God allows us that.  We can choose to sin or we can choose to repent of our sin.

 

I don't know how God will be able to judge every single person, but I believe that He is fair and just and we should not agree with things that He says are sinful.

[Guest Geoff Primanti]

Should they or shouldnt they have done so? 

 

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/26229223/2014/08/07/tampa-church-cancels-funeral-because-man-was-gay

 

Personally I don't think it was a very good witness.  But I can see how the pastor might have balked at giving the eulogy because he would have had to compromise God's word if he was going to give any indication the man went to heaven and that would have been a bad funeral; because funerals are meant to comfort the grieving.  As it is written "Blessed are those who mourn; for they shall be comforted." 

[Guest]

I think Ayin Jade makes an excellent point with regard to a marriage ceremony.  I would have done the same thing the church did, cancel the funeral.  This is a conscience issue and I believe they did the right thing.

 

 

Although It Appears

 

Preach the word; 2 Timothy 4:2(a)

 

There Was Intentional Deception

 

be instant in season, 2 Timothy 4:2(b)

 

On The Part Of The Deceased Man's Partner In Sin

 

out of season; reprove, rebuke, 2 Timothy 4:2(c-e)

 

I Have Not Problem With A Christian Standing And Preaching His Funeral

 

exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 2 Timothy 4:2(f-g)

 

Especially If That Person Is A Fundamental, Independent,

Bible-Believing, Christ-Centered, King James Only, Fearless, Loud, Baptist Preacher Man

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

Gay or not, we are all children of God and all need love. I think it's wrong what they did. I don't think Jesus would do so.

 

 

As nice as that may sound to say, it is not so.  God is not a father to those who are in flagrant disobedience to His word and have not become His children through

faith in Christ Jesus His Son.

 

Jesus does not, never has and would not condone sin.  Homosexuality is sin.  

 

How is it loving to support a sinful lifestyle?

 

The Bible does not support a homosexual lifestyle; rather, homosexuals who desire to continue in sin, improvise scritpure that they twist to support their sin

and ignore scripture that decries their practices.

 

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.  Galatians 6:7

God may not like the life he lived or be happy about the sin, but he loves us regardless of our sin. Loves us regardless of not having yet 'found him' yet and he will always be everyone's heavenly father.

I do believe most people are born gay for some reason (I think it came about after Adam and Eve sinned personally), so it's up to The Lord to free of us of that if he chooses to.

We do not know if the gay man had not tried to come to Christ and stop the sin. Maybe he wasn't successful and had died before being free of that sin.

It's not our place to judge other people

 

 

No, God is not everyone's heavenly Father. Jesus makes a point of Satan being the father of those who are not His.

 

No one is born in such a perverse manner that they would find it impossible to obey Him concerning sexual immorality. It is NOT up to the Lord to free people, although that is exactly what He does. It is up to a person to surrender his life and his mind---and body---to the control of Holy Spirit, to the glory of God.

 

We cannot judge those outside the Church, as they don't know any better, but it is ours to judge those within the Church. We are charged to judge sin. We are charged to make sure we are free ourselves before we attempt to assist others with their "splinters".

[Qnts2]

If you were doing the funeral MG, what would you say about the man?  You know that based on scripture, he is in hell.  You can't very well say anything to lift up his marriage to a man.  If you had the responsibility of preaching the funeral, what could you possibly say that wouldn't be offensive or a lie to make people feel better? 

 

When a person speaks in an official capacity at a funeral, especially the funeral of a person who was not saved, as believers, we can know one thing about the deceased. The deceased now knows where they are, and why. Going to the story of Lazarus and the rich man :

 

Luke 16:22Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. ²³ In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. ²⁴ And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ ²⁵ But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. ²⁶ And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ ²⁷ And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— ²⁸ for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

 

So, the rich man, if he had some say in the proceedings of his funeral, because he loved his brothers, would have the preacher tell them about Jesus. Now, I would not quote Luke 16, but I would say that the deceased now knows some of the mysteries of life and death, and if he could speak with family and those he loved, he would want to tell them about the afterlife, God and Jesus. etc.

 

Unlike marriage, there is no 'convenant of funerals'. I do not believe it is a sin to offer some words at a funeral. The words are for the living.  

[The_Patriot21]

 

If you were doing the funeral MG, what would you say about the man?  You know that based on scripture, he is in hell.  You can't very well say anything to lift up his marriage to a man.  If you had the responsibility of preaching the funeral, what could you possibly say that wouldn't be offensive or a lie to make people feel better? 

 

When a person speaks in an official capacity at a funeral, especially the funeral of a person who was not saved, as believers, we can know one thing about the deceased. The deceased now knows where they are, and why. Going to the story of Lazarus and the rich man :

 

Luke 16:22Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. ²³ In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. ²⁴ And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ ²⁵ But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. ²⁶ And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ ²⁷ And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— ²⁸ for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

 

So, the rich man, if he had some say in the proceedings of his funeral, because he loved his brothers, would have the preacher tell them about Jesus. Now, I would not quote Luke 16, but I would say that the deceased now knows some of the mysteries of life and death, and if he could speak with family and those he loved, he would want to tell them about the afterlife, God and Jesus. etc.

 

Unlike marriage, there is no 'convenant of funerals'. I do not believe it is a sin to offer some words at a funeral. The words are for the living.  

 

[Guest Butero]

 

If you were doing the funeral MG, what would you say about the man?  You know that based on scripture, he is in hell.  You can't very well say anything to lift up his marriage to a man.  If you had the responsibility of preaching the funeral, what could you possibly say that wouldn't be offensive or a lie to make people feel better? 

 

When a person speaks in an official capacity at a funeral, especially the funeral of a person who was not saved, as believers, we can know one thing about the deceased. The deceased now knows where they are, and why. Going to the story of Lazarus and the rich man :

 

Luke 16:22Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. ²³ In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. ²⁴ And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ ²⁵ But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. ²⁶ And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ ²⁷ And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— ²⁸ for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

 

So, the rich man, if he had some say in the proceedings of his funeral, because he loved his brothers, would have the preacher tell them about Jesus. Now, I would not quote Luke 16, but I would say that the deceased now knows some of the mysteries of life and death, and if he could speak with family and those he loved, he would want to tell them about the afterlife, God and Jesus. etc.

 

Unlike marriage, there is no 'convenant of funerals'. I do not believe it is a sin to offer some words at a funeral. The words are for the living.  

 

I don't think it is a sin, but I still would refuse to preach his funeral.  I think it is a conscience issue on the part of the people running the church. 

[Guest Geoff Primanti]

It sounds like the perfect opportunity to preach a sermon on God demonstrated his love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. It would have been a sin to marry them. But I would have made this an opportunity instead. He could even record it and play it for the congregation. He could include the portions in 1 Cor.5:9-11 and 6:9-11 and explain that God expects born again Christians to know right from wrong. But He doesnt condemn the world. He died so that the world could be forgiven. He wants those in the world to agree with Him in what He considers to be sin and to ask God to come into their lives to change their desires and make them a new person in Christ. Then have an alter call.

I would not make this about the dead, but about the living, and would make no specific mention about the deceased except to say he was deeply loved and will be missed. They chose to have it in a church, so they should expect to have a Christian service. I have been to two such funerals that were salvation messages and one wedding. If they want a secular service they should go to a funeral parlor. I had never heard a eulogy at a church funeral until recent years. But I would warn the family, assuming they still came regularly, and gain their cooperation; and tell the boyfriend what kind of a service was planned, giving him the choice to opt out. It would be only fair since he had not informed the pastor of the circumstances.

 

Do you know what kind of stink something like that wold have caused?  You have to know that they're pushing to make preaching on those kinds of passages against the law; it would have only added fuel to the fire.

 

I'm thinking that that pastor took the safer course; which is not to say he was right in doing it that way.  Inexplicably I think he was wrong and you are absolutely right that this is what he should have done.

[Guest Butero]

 

It sounds like the perfect opportunity to preach a sermon on God demonstrated his love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. It would have been a sin to marry them. But I would have made this an opportunity instead. He could even record it and play it for the congregation. He could include the portions in 1 Cor.5:9-11 and 6:9-11 and explain that God expects born again Christians to know right from wrong. But He doesnt condemn the world. He died so that the world could be forgiven. He wants those in the world to agree with Him in what He considers to be sin and to ask God to come into their lives to change their desires and make them a new person in Christ. Then have an alter call.

I would not make this about the dead, but about the living, and would make no specific mention about the deceased except to say he was deeply loved and will be missed. They chose to have it in a church, so they should expect to have a Christian service. I have been to two such funerals that were salvation messages and one wedding. If they want a secular service they should go to a funeral parlor. I had never heard a eulogy at a church funeral until recent years. But I would warn the family, assuming they still came regularly, and gain their cooperation; and tell the boyfriend what kind of a service was planned, giving him the choice to opt out. It would be only fair since he had not informed the pastor of the circumstances.

 

Do you know what kind of stink something like that wold have caused?  You have to know that they're pushing to make preaching on those kinds of passages against the law; it would have only added fuel to the fire.

 

I'm thinking that that pastor took the safer course; which is not to say he was right in doing it that way.  Inexplicably I think he was wrong and you are absolutely right that this is what he should have done.

 

You are assuming they refused to do the funeral out of fear.  That is not the reason I would refuse to do it.  If I felt God wanted me to use the opportunity to preach a hell, fire and brimstone message on Sodom, I would have done it.  I have 2 concerns over doing this funeral.

 

1.  I don't want to make it appear I condone homosexual unions.  Even if I didn't join them in marriage, my decision to preach at the funeral makes it appear like I am ok with it.

 

2.  While I am for doing anything the Lord wants done, including preaching against sodomy, this is a funeral, and I don't feel it is appropriate to do so unless I am directly led that way.  That leaves me between a rock and a hard place, because I don't know what to say.  I can't lift the man up with regard to his character, the life he led, or his family.  Even if I believe he condemned himself through his actions, I don't want to pile on.  I also don't wish to come across like I am ok with gay marriage or the homosexual lifestyle.  Short of using the funeral to preach eternal damnation to all homosexuals that die in their sins, I don't know what I could say, and again, I don't really feel like a funeral is the appropriate place for such a sermon. 

 

I believe the church did the right thing.  The only compromise I could see being done is if they allowed the church facility to be used, but told the family they had to bring in their own speakers.  Even that could cause problems, as they could turn the funeral into a platform for the homosexual agenda.  They were really in a no win situation, so I just accept whatever decision they made as ok.  There was no absolute right or wrong thing they could have done here.  I feel for them, and the fact they were put on the spot like they were. 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings ....

 

They were really in a no win situation, so I just accept whatever decision they made as ok.  There was no absolute right or wrong thing they could have done here.  I feel for them, and the fact they were put on the spot like they were.                                                                                                                 posted by Butero

   I do agree with you Butero,100% & I stand by what I said earlier,,,,,,we simply do not have enough information to know much of anything,let alone the state of this mans heart,when & if he came to Christ with a repentant heart  & so on.....for all we know the deceased could have been in reprobrate with no conviction at all....who knows?

    What is really impressing me here is that there are some Christians that say"What would Jesus do".....as if Jesus would say,"Aww its okay no matter how much you spit in my face,I am the ultimate doormat for anyone to stomp on " Jesus already came & sacrificed Himself as the Lamb of God for anyone who WANTS forgiveness & NEEDS the Savior.......did He live among us as a lamb or was He the first One to call sin a sin at any & all expense....the difference between what Jesus would do & what we do is that He is God and He knows a mans heart......  He knows well who the Father has placed in His Hands as His very own.......we do not & can not.Therefore we just cannot know the dead mans heart,it appears by his fruits that he may not have been  a child of God but it is too late to pray for him,it is not too late for his partner or any one else living unless they have crossed over into reprobrate(let us hope not)

     I just don't know what to think of anyones sinful lifestyle,I know I was a hot mess once upon a time and I am forgiven because I asked to be..........in my sinful state the church could have very well refused to give me a funeral....& I suspect they would have had every right to do so ,so what can I say?

                                                                                                                                                                            With love,Kwik