Jump to content
IGNORED

Authority of Scripture


a-seeker

Recommended Posts

Guest Butero

Did I always believe in the inerrancy of scripture?  Yes.  At the same time, I have spent time reading the Bible repeatedly, and found that any so-called contradictions or errors and unfounded.  Take the example you gave in Genesis.  I don't see this as a contradiction at all.  I never have.  I could fully see what it meant, and that what you call an apparent contradictions is not a contradiction. 

 

You asked if I believed the Bible was inerrant before reading it, and my answer is yes.  How about you Conner?  Did you start out believing it was inerrant, and only after seeing things you can't understand, did you then change your mind, or did you already think there were issues with things like Genesis, and you jumped on anything you could find to show contradictions? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

 

~

 

In this OP I wish to challenge an assumption. 

 

In several threads I contended that much of the early chapters in Genesis were of mythic material and not to be taken as strict history—whether or not there was a massive flood in the remote past, a Christian is not obliged to assume that it was global, nor that a single vessel once carried two of every species (excluding fish) for nearly (or just over) a year. 

 

To this contention I (and others) were met with the accusation that I have subjected Scripture to my own authority; the implication being that one can (and should) be wholly submitted to Scripture. 

 

I have thought long about the accusation and have come to two conclusions:  yes, I do; and so do you....

 

~

 

Me, You And All Men

 

By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. Hebrews 11:3

 

Will Either Believe In The Jesus Of The Bible

 

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Corinthians 15:20-22

 

Or The Bible Will Judge Them

 

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

 

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:47-48

 

~

 

See Beloved It's Not About Your Philosophy

 

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

 

Nor About Man's Speculations

 

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: 1 Timothy 6:20

 

But About Jesus

 

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

 

And His Blood

 

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Revelation 1:5

 

Love, Joe

 

~

 

In Other Words

 

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11

 

Keep The Faith

 

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

 

The Bible  contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers.

 

Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions immutable.

 

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy.

 

It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

 

It is the traveler's map, the pilgrim's staff, the pilot's compass, the soldier's sword, and the Christian's charter.

 

Here Paradise is restored, Heaven opened, and the gates of hell disclosed.

 

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end.

 

It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet.

 

Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.

 

It is a mine of wealth, a Paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

 

It is given to you in life, will be open in the judgment, and be remembered forever.

 

It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and condemns all who trifle with its holy precepts.

 

From The Front Of My Gideon New Testament

 

~

 

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Hebrews 11:3

 

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6

 

By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. Hebrews 11:7

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  30
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,373
  • Content Per Day:  0.76
  • Reputation:   683
  • Days Won:  22
  • Joined:  02/28/2012
  • Status:  Offline

I find the Bible becomes more inerrant about the nature of human kind the longer I know God.

 

And I don't mean this to you Connor, but some people look for what they perceive as errant because they see too much of themself the more they read.....in the Bible

 

However, I agree that responses such as 'who do you think you are' don't qualify as answers and certainly not discussion.  sometimes though, people will respond that

way because they don't have a clue about the ...often...honest questions...however, I find that engaging the brain usually works much better.....however, faith is a gift

and we are drawn by the Holy Spirit...sure...we all have questions

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  7
  • Topic Count:  867
  • Topics Per Day:  0.24
  • Content Count:  7,331
  • Content Per Day:  2.01
  • Reputation:   2,860
  • Days Won:  31
  • Joined:  04/09/2014
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  04/28/1964

I can give a few examples of where I thought I had discovered an error in the Bible but later found out that there was no error, just my misunderstanding of it. The error didn't lie in the Bible, it lay in a man-made definition of something that had clouded my judgement.

 

The problem here is that if you think that the Bible contains even one error, then it must be possible for it to contain more errors. Once you believe that the Bible contains errors it becomes easy for you to convince yourself that you can reinterpret scripture to suit yourself rather than to suit God.

I don't believe that the Bible contains any errors but it does contain a few conundrums that sometimes look like errors when you first come across them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  9
  • Topic Count:  3
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  2,326
  • Content Per Day:  0.63
  • Reputation:   1,302
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  01/26/2014
  • Status:  Offline

Hi CLB,

 

I would suggest to you that we apply reason because the Biblical version of reality portrays a rational Creator. Not all faiths portray reality this way. For example, in much eastern thought, reality is a great mind that can be changed at any moment. Greek and Roman God’s are often portrayed as erratic, capricious and irrational.

 

Yet the Bible portrays the Creator as a rational God of order. Adherents to the Bible are admonished to "test all things", to think about (“meditate on”) why we believe what we do, to pursue knowledge and truth and wisdom, to question the validity of human claims and philosophies, to apply “reason” to the defence of our beliefs etc.

 

Therefore we apply reason in submission to the authority of scripture, not as an authority over scripture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  55
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  4,568
  • Content Per Day:  0.69
  • Reputation:   770
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  01/18/2006
  • Status:  Offline

I would expect that kind of comment to come from Richard Dawkins.  It is disturbing when people who allege that they are Christians start sounding like atheists.

 

Inerrancy is a doctrine, an essential doctrine of the Christian faith, not a placebo.   No you are not seeking truth.  You are challenging the integrity of God's word and by extension you are challenging God's integrity.   Your posts demonstrate direct enmity with the truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I couldn't agree with you more Shiloh.  Either one believes the record we have been given or they don't.  You can't believe in the God of the Bible and then turn around and fight against the God of the Bible for that is the true character of the atheists.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  764
  • Topics Per Day:  0.18
  • Content Count:  7,626
  • Content Per Day:  1.82
  • Reputation:   1,559
  • Days Won:  44
  • Joined:  10/03/2012
  • Status:  Offline

Hopefully Connor will return to the discussion. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  6
  • Topic Count:  10
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  653
  • Content Per Day:  0.11
  • Reputation:   189
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  11/18/2007
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  03/26/1977

 

Behind this question lies the enormous difference between you and me.  I treat the Bible as if it were any historical document; only then do I discover that it is much more than that; and only  from this approach do I let Scripture tell me how it is inspired.

 

It already tells you how it is inspired II Tim. 3:16 and II Pet. 1:21

 

Amen!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  4
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  336
  • Content Per Day:  0.09
  • Reputation:   129
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/14/2014
  • Status:  Offline

First of all, I believe the Bible is inerrant, and that the Genesis account of creation is a fact.  I also believe Noah's flood is exactly as recorded, and that it covered the entire earth.  There is no contradiction in Genesis with regard to God creating man.  In Genesis chapter one, it simply records the fact that God created man in his image.  This is interesting to me, because in a way, God did create Adam before Eve, but in another way, God created Adam and Eve at the same time.  In the mind of God, both Adam and Eve existed, just as in the mind of God, the prophet Jeremiah existed before he was created in the womb.  Eve is part of Adam.  She is bone of his bones and flesh of his flesh.  Before God placed Adam in a deep sleep, Eve was one of Adam's ribs.  In that sense, she already existed, and in the mind of God, she already existed.  I will also reveal to you another mystery.  The Bible says that when a man and woman get married, they become one flesh.  The carnal way to look at this is to say they become intimate and one that way, but spiritually, the rib that was taken from the man is restored, and he and the woman are one complete person.  Genesis chapter one is just speaking in general terms of the creation of mankind, and God mentions creating mankind male and female.  In Genesis chapter 2, we see the exact account of how the woman was formed, and the reason why she was formed.  There is no contradiction. 

However you did not address the contradiction claimed in the OP. Instead you focus on one part and say there is no contradiction but in no way address the other contradiction about the order of creation. That is what you need to explain not some objection that the OP did not even raise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  4
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  336
  • Content Per Day:  0.09
  • Reputation:   129
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/14/2014
  • Status:  Offline

It already tells you how it is inspired II Tim. 3:16 and II Pet. 1:21

 

However at the time it was written the only scriptures that existed at that point in time was the OT. As such it was talking about the OT not the NT. 

Old times also refers to OT.

 

 

Inerrancy has nothing to with discrepancies.   Not all discrepancies are created equal.    There are for example, scribal errors in the Bible that have no effect on inerrancy whatsoever.  Spelling errors and errors in how many chariots or foot soldiers were in a particular battles have no effect on inerrancy.  The kind of contradiction that needs to occur for there to a genuine challenge inerrancy would be something on the level with a claim that Judas hung himself in one Gospel and another Gospel that claims that Judas was murdered by a Roman soldier.  

 
The problem is that none of the silly alleged contradictions really come up with that example.  Most of them are scribal errors that are offered have no effect on the substance of the text and have no effect on any doctrine taught in Scripture.  This view that "the Bible is full of contradictions"  is really just a  lot of nonsense.

 

 

Yet you say all this without addressing the contradiction the OP gave. That is for most people a serious contradiction. It isn't something like scribal error or the number of soldiers.

 

 

Al Mohler, president of Southern Seminary in Louisville, KY observes:  “Without an inerrant, authoritative Bible, the minister has nothing to preach, because we depend upon an authority that is not our own, to declare to people.  And if we don’t have confidence in the absolute authority and perfection of the Word of God, your authority in preaching is completely compromised."

 

"Why did the people marvel at Jesus’ teachings?  Because he was funny?  Because He was clever or because he was up to date on Herodian politics?  No, they marveled because He spoke as one who had authority.  All we have to offer the world is mercy, truth and grace. And if you think you can maximize grace by minimizing truth you will have neither.  You cannot have an authoritative word with out an inerrant word. The bottom line is what is the preacher doing.  If the preacher isn’t preaching, 'thus saith the Lord,' he is only reflecting his own opinion. And the distinction between thus saith the Lord and 'here is my opinion' is an infinite distance.  The congregation needs the word of God and confidence in the Word of God is what the pastor must have and then share.  If it less than inerrant it is less than authoritative and it will show up in preaching

This is one persons opinion. They have not provided anything to support some of their statements. Statements they rely on to prove their overall point.

 

 

I would expect that kind of comment to come from Richard Dawkins.  It is disturbing when people who allege that they are Christians start sounding like atheists.  

Inerrancy is a doctrine, an essential doctrine of the Christian faith, not a placebo.   No you are not seeking truth.  You are challenging the integrity of God's word and by extension you are challenging God's integrity.   Your posts demonstrate direct enmity with the truth.

 

by whose definition is inerrancy essential doctrine? That is your opinion not fact. Several denominations have doctrine saying the bible is the inspired word of God. Inspired and inerrant are not the same thing

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...